8 years ago
Merry Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies


While the sweetest thing about the Holidays for many outside the Sugarbowl may be a sweet potato pie, many Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies are happily embracing the spirit of giving this season.

Over 56% of Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies polled on this blog rate Christmas as their favorite Holiday in Sugarland, with Valentines day a distant second at 28%.

There are lots of popular items on the Sugar Baby and Sugar Daddy wish list this year, such as the iPad, which continues to break sales records for Apple, and was recently declared Oprah’s all-time favorite thing.

Yet while Sugar Daddies and sugar mamas may not be giving their sugar babies new Volkswagen Beetles this year like Oprah gave her entire audience on her ‘Ultimate Favorite Things’ show last week, there are plenty of things SB’s and SD’s can look forward to for the rest of this Holiday season.

Santa’s sleigh is on its way to Sugarland, so don’t forget your Sugar Daddy and Sugar Baby wish lists…

Here are some sugarlicious options for sugar daddy and sugar baby merriment this year:

Be with a sugar of your choosing at the upcoming Seeking Arrangement Naughty or Nice party in NYC Dec. 8th. Thanks to great suggestions from past party attendees, the next sugar meet will be more sophisticated and sultry than ever. With a ‘little red dress’ contest for Sugar Babies, great DJ, and many other sugary treats, all attendees are sure to go home with something sweet.

To give your sugar a sweet new scent for the new year, you might pick up a bottle of “Sugar Daddy” or “Sugar”, the new his and her fragrances in Sugarland this year. The new “Sexual” line sugar fragrances were created with the “right accord of aphrodisiacs” and is meant to ‘do the flirting for you’.

iPad’s are on many a Sugar Baby wish lists this season, and for many obvious reasons. The possibilities seem endless with the must-have tablet, which can include sugary gifts in and of itself, such as the SA Book, written by SA founder and CEO Brandon Wade and infused with plenty of Sugar Blog wisdom.

What do you have on your sugar wish list?

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470 Responses to “Merry Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies”

  1. BlondbabyToronto says:

    note to cecile:

    1) it doesn’t discuss some men especially if they are more mature — but it grosses me out lol

    2) I wouldn’t tell him – you should still meet him so you don’t loose your chance, have dinner with him and then act classy say you don’t want to have any intimacy on the first date but you two can massage each other and kiss trust me the out of bounds thing but seeing you in some HOT lingerie (but not knowing your bleeding) will make him come running back for more next time!!

    so yeah, meet him have dinner, get some massage oil and pick up a new outfit that will make any guy drool – he will be offering you all sorts of presents to get into your pants, and after the night is done he will respect you 100% more than if you two had sex because he will think you are also there for intimacy and companionship as any girl can spread her legs.


    (other than that I know some girls get sponges and cut a little piece off and put it in side them as long as the guy is wearing a condom he can’t feel the difference but then he’ll be trying to lick you down there and some blood will still get on the condom – and getting the thing out is a BITCH literally I don’t suggest it!)

  2. BlondbabyToronto says:

    Hey sugar babiess *kisses*

    I was wondering if anyone else is finding it hard to find a reliable sugar daddy that is GENEROUS, a majority of the men I have been meeting think the 1000 dollars I want for one date is steep (evening together – longer date) …. I’m 19 blond tall thin told and not ugly looking by any means as well I’m in university, I have a great personality and over 1000 hour of volunteer work!

    And then I look and see 40 yearold women asking for the same amount I want and it really hurts me as if I’m not worth the same at least :S :S

    I think my problem is that Toronto has a HUGE sex industry so the men here assume that sugar babies should cost less then hookers… ummm sorry but I want only one guy when hookers don’t mind having a bunch of clients…. :S

    Im actually currently dating more than one sugar daddy! And I HATE it but with out it I won’t be able to pay my rent! Does Any sugar babies have an advice for me?

    Babyblond I saw in another blog you have a gentleman spending 10,000 a month on you! WOW, how long did it take you to find that relationship.

    Thanks so much sugars xoxoxo

    – A guy offered me 3,500 for a weekend in LA hopefully it goes through I’m behind on my rent and I haven’t paid a cent of my schooling for this year and I’m waiting for OSAP (ontario student load) !!! :( ;( – is that a decent amount for a weekend? I found that other men thought it was too much! One guy offered me 1000 dollars for a week down south LOL SORRY but I know my wealth is more then minimum wage, don’t you girls take it offensively when a guy offers so little? Don’t you find if you ask the guy first what he thinks its fair its always 25% of what is expected!

    – also don’t you hate the men that put on their profile “open amount to discuss” but they always have a limit they want to spend and they state it in a message to you… SO PUT IT ON YOUR PROFILE :S :S :S

  3. Arcadia SB says:

    Cecil: Well I’m of the “if it’s all right with you it’s all right with me” school…but all the guys I’ve dated have been more into having fun times than worrying about a little mess (sorry if that’s a little gross, I have no idea how else to phrase it). If it’s really something that bothers you personally (my best friend absolutely refuses to have any sort of intimate contact during that time) then I think honesty is the best policy. He’ll either understand or he won’t…and really there’s a lot of fun you can have together without “Aunt Flo” (as I got taught in the 6th grade) being a problem. Hopefull I haven’t offended anyone’s delicate sensibilities here.

  4. SoNJSugar says:

    Like I mentioned in the previous comment, I’m new to the sugar bowl. I’ve gotten some messages from pot. SDs, however, I’m also putting off potential SD meet & greets for until I’ve lost weight. Have any fellow sugar babies done something similar to that? I’d like some advice on that end. Thank you.

  5. Cecile says:

    Hi sugar friends,
    Quick question for the more experienced!
    I’m talking to a very classy gentleman of a SD, who’s coming into Paris from out of town this weekend. We’ve been discussing starting up and arrangement, but yesterday I had a slight hitch in my planning. I don’t know how to say this gracefully, which is why I’m here for your advice, but Aunt Ruby’s in town.
    If that wasn’t clear enough, “it’s that time of the month”. Eek. Sorry.
    But I’m sure you can see what an awkward situation this is. I haven’t met my sugar daddy yet, and don’t want to turn him off with that kind of imagery, but I’ve already used my “term paper is due monday” excuse (which is actually valid), and he’s still begging for a study break. He’s afraid we’ll “lose momentum” if we don’t meet before the holidays, as he might not be back in town for a while. But his message also very clearly hinted at intimate times.
    Do I find a euphamism, or do I stick with the term paper excuse??
    Help me, sweet things!

  6. Nico says:

    Hello long lost sugar brothers and sisters. I’ve been lurking for a bit now but now need to join hands with my family as it relates to MISD…..I cannot see much positive in your situation (for you anyway)….certainly now that she’s ‘soured’ the experience with her attitude.

    You’re a generous man and I would save the sweets for somebody far more deserving!!

    Gail, Lisa, OC and Villa….sooooo good to see you guys back again *waves hi*

  7. adoc says:

    @ michigan daddy: wow … you sound amazing. I wish we had the quality of sugar daddies in new zealand that are i america. Men here make it sound like they are doing you the biggest favour if all they do is pay ur rent. I had one guy want to see me twice a week and have me stay over for my livign costs. my living costs arent high because i purposely keep them as low as possible. However a sugar daddy should improve my lifestyle not just pay as little as possible. HOPELESS!! i can earn that money working……..
    I gave up too 😛

  8. TL- I’d discuss this with you further for sure. I’m certainly no cassanova, but I think I do ok with the ladies. And I also think I’ve got the basics down too. Lol But you gotta have two people to create sexual tension. I’ve had an extremely fruitful sb relationship that started online, but not here, and lasted for a year. I’ve been in less explicit “sugar” relationships that started in real life too. I’m not a total rookie here.

    But admittedly this young woman had thrown me for a loop. It’s over though. I’m done with her. I haven’t activated my profile again yet but I’ve sent some emails out today. Who knows, I’m young, maybe after a couple years of sugar style relationships maybe it’s me that’s changed.

  9. ToughLove says:

    @SD Twice

    “It’s easier to give birth than to raise the dead.”— my father. MI needs to reboot the machine and start over. That’s why I offered this generic advice with an offer to discuss it one on one. He got it wrong from the beginning and will continue to get it wrong unless he makes some internal adjustments. So, we start with what works and move forward.

  10. SD TWICE says:

    SD TWICE says:

    December 4, 2010 at 9:01 am
    TL, I think that is a great generic post of advice for many SDs having trouble, but highly doubt it is applicable to MI’s situation. It would be a good one to edit for the current blog topic so lots of people see it.

  11. ToughLove says:


    Dude, it’s time for a f–king intervention! (Have the blog admin send me your email address.)

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I get the feeling women are not exactly your strong point. (Not trying to sound harsh.) As I mentioned in a conversation with Lily several weeks ago, many men don’t know what they’re doing with women and come to the sugar bowl thinking money will fix things. It doesn’t. At the end of the day SHE’S STILL A WOMAN. A woman needs to be seduced (properly, skillfully, artfully) whether its in the sugar bowl or IRL. Much of the frustration I see from SD’s goes along the lines: “I gave her an allowance, but she’s still not into me”. Well, DUH! For some men, sugar improves the QUALITY of woman they’d normally date, but it won’t make her ATTRACTED to you if she isn’t already.

    The ladies were kind enough to cover some BASICS:
    1. Grooming. There is no excuse for an SD not having this handled from head to toe. And I do mean from the top of your head to the soles of your feet and EVERYTHING in between.
    2. Dress. If you need help, ask a friend. Lots of entertaining stories from SB’s about SD’s showing up under dressed, poorly dressed, sloppily dressed, etc. It’s sugar “dating”. Still matters.
    3. Manners. While some bloggers and I may differ on the details since I’m admittedly “more horn than halo”, the general rule applies. Bringing up sex is a non-starter. Understand the importance of sexual tension…it’s on the table, just not discussed. You mentioning it spoils it for her. Let HER take the conversation in that direction (trust me on this…). Corollary: you must understand sexual tension for yourself as a man.
    4. Charm-Personality-Intelligence. Yes, yes, yes it all matters. Again, this is sugar “dating”. Simply being able to have a conversation with a woman seems to be a leap for some SD’s. Ignore your own feelings of lust and actually pay attention to the woman in front of you. Ask yourself “Is she someone I actually want to keep around for more than just sex?”
    5. Abundance. You have to realize that if you are in a position to be an SD, your doing better than 90% of the world’s population in terms of income/net worth. Take a bow. Now, realize there are LOOOOOOOOOTS of women out there. More than you could ever enjoy in 100 lifetimes (and they keep making more, damn it). If a situation isn’t to your liking, MOVE ON. I can’t emphasize this strongly enough, MOVE THE F–K ON!! Think opportunity cost: the time you are wasting with “Miss Attitude” is preventing you from reaching “Miss Hotness SB” who’d give her left implant to have an SD like you in her life.

    Again, these are some BASICS, just the beginning. Contact me if you want to chat further. (Guru, I learned my lesson since the Millionaire Matchmaker used my “Delay test” on a recent episode. So no more details on the blog.)

  12. Arcadia SB says:

    I can’t keep up with everything in the blog, I’m still way back in the comments but wanted to tell everyone good morning and hope everyone has a sugar filled weekend!

  13. NYC SB says:

    A pot of mine tried this approach… He booked a room and made plans to meet me for dinner then informed me that he has a room for the night and I should pack an overnight bag. If she declines that then you simply say that this is not working out for you.

  14. Morning all up headed to the office.

    DW – we’ve never been alone together for me to initiate anything. It’s always been coffee, lunches, shopping, a play. we’ve never even ridden in the same car together. When I’ve talked to her about trying to have some alone time, that’s when the excuses come up and the sometime in the future.

    I confronted her about it last night and it didn’t go well. She eventually said that fine we could spend some alone time sunday. But I don’t even want to now. Continental was right. It’s tainted, not sexy. I’m pretty disappointed. Won’t lie. just not sure what she was looking for then.

    next time, if there is one I’m not sure I’ll be returning to the sugar world, I’m gonna be more clear. couple of dates then the arrangement begins or it doesnt.

  15. SD TWICE says:

    MI, while it is effort to find one, it generally feels effortless to keep a good situation.

    So you either do it, find another type of relationship, or stay alone. But never decide to hang on to something because the next seems daunting.

  16. SD TWICE says:

    * Wasting self respect involves, among other things, such activities as:

    1. Rewarding bad behavior

    2. Ignoring warning signs

    3. Expecting someone to change

  17. SD TWICE says:

    Texas, you don’t really have a guy. You two probably like each other but you can’t see each other. Thinking about allowances and extras at meetings when you see each other once in 6 months is not practical.

    You need simply to see each other again. You need to be able to see each other more. When you figure out how to do that, those other things will be relevant.

    Also, you probably need to look for someone you can see more.

  18. Bela says:


    michigan, you deserve better.

    i miss my sd.

    why do drunk men feel the need to invade your personal space? ew

  19. SD TWICE says:

    …I mean in this sort of situation. If it were a great long term thing and you both are happy, something additional is fine.

  20. SD TWICE says:

    In case it wasn’t obvious: Absolutely never give them additional allowance.

  21. SD TWICE says:

    SD Guru says:
    December 3, 2010 at 5:39 pm
    We’ve talked about it, she and I, but no change in actions.

    I guess you forgot the three golden rules I posted earlier:

    1. Don’t reward bad behavior.
    2. Don’t ignore warning signs.
    3. Don’t expect someone’s behavior to change over time.

    Several bloggers already advised you to move on, so why are you still going around in circles?

    -> Because several bloggers are advising him to go around in circles.

    The only advice you need is a single word: Next.

    What Continental said about taint is absolutely right.

    You have to be completely disconnected about these relationships. Your emotions will get you ripped off. They are a dime a dozen…there are 10 more lined up waiting.

    Karma, anger, and all that is a lot of BS. Don’t waste your self respect on any effort to reset some relationship. Walk away with a feeling of relief and look hopefully for another relationship. That’s how you succeed and remain positive.

  22. Dandelion Wine says:

    MI SD, so did you attempt to get more intimate and she turned you down, or were you waiting for her to initiate and she hasn’t?

  23. Gail says:

    @WCSD….Clap!!!!Clap!!!Clap!!!Whistle!!!Whistle….Love your 2 cents on December 2, 2010 at 6:08 pm!!!

    Waving at good byes to everybody…..Had to stop…I see some familiar faces: ) Helloooooooooooooo OC,Villa, Texas Sugah, Midwest, Lisa and Percy!!!!!

    Lisa…can you send me some warm, dry weather? It’s gonna rain for the next four days here : (

  24. TexaSugah says:

    Happy Friday y’all,

    MISD – I complete agree. What are you arguing about? Meaning, why put yourself through this? The whole point of a sugar relationship is to avoid this kind of drama. Aren’t the stats like 10 to 1 in favor of the SDs? You’ll find another lady friend. The more you chase, the more she (as immature as she is) will try to get you over a barrel. Sweetheart, you’re being played.

    Villa – I would love the cold weather for one day. I am pretty sick of the heat this late in the year down here. *ugh*

    San Diego – Men who mention sex all the time seem to feel that they can make something happen. I guess it’s the equivalent of nagging.

    Can you believe I’m getting frustrated with my guy? We’ve known each other for the better part of the year but have only been together once (long story). I asked him about going for a little pampering when he comes down here again. He totally ignored the question. I’m not sure what to do with that. Should I bring it up again or wait until he wants to do some planning for his trip and guide him in the right direction?

    We talked about an allowance when we first started talking back in the summer and haven’t discussed it again. He has provided me with what I’ve asked for this month but it’s less than the allowance. What should I do?

  25. FL-SD says:

    @MI SD…
    I’ve been in your situation. Continental makes a very valid point… The frustration you feel will probably taint any future. It’s tough to throw in the towel, but I found that, for me, it was best to cut my losses and move on.

    • OCSugarBaby ♥ says:

      @ CT SD– Well… yes empty sugar promises on either side are just plain sour.

      @ MI SD– My best words of wisdom are that the best sugar relationships are when the SD takes charge and puts the past (good and bad) sugar relationships out of the equation and starts on a new and level ground with the current one. Personally my expectations are that the SD and the SB agree on their sugar behavior in a non sugar environment. Say for instance they have had a first meet and then even a second one (dinner), personalities mesh and laughter and common interests abound. That paves the road for a conversation about moving forward and setting realistic expectations. Availability, logistics of travel, types of sugar dates both parties would find fitting to the arrangement (some non sexual, some romantic, some even a bit of both, some golf, tennis or other sport activity where you can gain a fun and insightful clue to how the other behaves outside of the whole strange sugar triangle (sex, allowance, secrets from the outside world). Sugar arrangements can be whatever you want them to be with the RIGHT two sugars! Make it your own and when it isn’t working, it just isn’t working.
      Leave the sugar arrangement with your honor, sanity and above all sugar karma intact. Let them know that you will pay them the full or even half of her last sugar allowance and bid them adieu. Anger comes from leaving the arrangement feeling like you lost something. Good sugar is out there, you have had it and you will find it again. Keep your head up and your sugar heart pure :)

      Hi Villa, Lisa, Sandy (San Diego SB), Green Eyed, Gemi, Bella and lurking Ladies!!! xoxo

  26. VillaCypris says:

    thanks lisa :)
    i’m snowbound now….
    will take all the warm weather that i can :))))))))))

  27. Lisa says:

    sending you some warm weather Villa

  28. My last sb was awesome. never had issues like this. One business talk followed by a year of fun. I need to find that again. Effortless. But all good things….

  29. VillaCypris says:

    miss you babe!!!!!!!!!!

  30. I agree re the unspoken over deliverying. the point is spoiling we go shopping no limits. every allowance delivered without her asking except those times she needed in sooner. I should be freaking smothered in affection and instead i’m going in fucking circles. I’m arguing with her about it as I type this. all I get is some future date bullshit.

    Fucking enough.

  31. SanDiego sb says:

    That would have been me last year when i was new and super naive to all of this, promised allowance, did everything i said i would, with only a couple of free meals to show for it.

  32. ContinentalTravel says:

    Actually, what would the bloggers here say if an SB comes here and tell us that her SD promised her an allowance, have sex with her for a month, and she has yet to get anything other than free dinner?

  33. ContinentalTravel says:


    To be honest, it’s time to move on. Even if you do get some action, the relationship just seems tainted to me. As I said previously about negotiation. If things needs to be negotiated back-and-forth repeatedly to reach an agreement, the feeling of trust and care is gone.

    To be, sugar relationships are based on unpromise and over-deliver, on both sides. If I have to remind a woman what she explicitly promised me, it’s over. I know that getting her to fulfill any promise in the future would be like pulling teeth. Do you plan to book a Vegas vacation with her in a few months? How do you know she’s not going to change her mind after you cleared your calendar and booked your first class tickets plus five star hotel stay?

    Having said that, you might as well accept any sex she offers once you stop paying her allowance. Enjoy whatever intimacy you can get, pay her allowance if she’s living up to her end of bargain, but do start searching for another candidate. Given your frustrated tone, sex is clearly not optional.

  34. SD Guru says:

    We’ve talked about it, she and I, but no change in actions.

    I guess you forgot the three golden rules I posted earlier:

    1. Don’t reward bad behavior.
    2. Don’t ignore warning signs.
    3. Don’t expect someone’s behavior to change over time.

    Several bloggers already advised you to move on, so why are you still going around in circles?

  35. Green Eyed Sugar Lady says:

    @ OC- agreed on the feet! 😀

    @ MI SD I don’t know how you go about setting up your visits, but what about mentioning over text/email that for the next visit, you’d like to make sure there’s some time set aside for “playtime” (insert your favorite euphemism here.) That way, if for some reason she needs a chance to get used to/warm up to the idea, she’s got it and she will be expecting it. Just a thought.

    I’m still sugarless as my SD fell ill over Thanksgiving weekend so we had to postpone our long-awaited get together until next week. It’s been a little rough going these past six weeks and I’m looking forward to getting back on track. I’ve been using my freed-up time to work on self-improvement, my latest project has been giving up coffee and energy drinks, I’ve switched over to tea. I like tea but I am definitely feeling the caffeine reduction. I wasn’t thinking about finals when I decided to do this!

  36. SanDiego sb says:

    When i had a sd over the summer, we went from the front door in an attempt to be in the bedroom and..well… didn’t really make it lol, i just personally think that kind of passion should be in an sugar relationship

  37. SanDiego sb says:

    If you and her have already talked about it, and it hasn’t happened yet.. do you really think its going to at this point?

  38. OC. We’ve talked about it, she and I, but no change in actions. I’m trying to convey that I’m done talking about it. Either she’s gonna be ok with me kissing her like something other than her grandma or she isn’t. I’m just done talking about it. It’s a little ridiculous, this shouldn’t be an issue I mean what are we on the site for?

  39. Ok wait. I’m not talking about being forcefull whoa. Not cool. I simply mean that I think she and I have talked enough either she is gonna be receptive or it just isn’t gonna happen.

    Sorry for the miscommunication. Wow

  40. ContinentalTravel says:


    Please don’t just “be a little more physical”. That never ends well. You’re a gentlemen, not a 15 year old boy trying to get laid. As the date of the next allowance approaches, make it clear that the next installment will not happen until you two get a little more physical. In the mean time, re-activate your SA profile, and start the search now. You never know what falls on your lap.

    I think life experience, wit, and charm does matter in a NSA relationship. NSA does not mean “late night booty call”, which is what a lot of young men are after. Based on my personal experience, not a lot of young men can hold a decent conversation. They just want a “pizza and DVD” night followed by some sex. Oh, they want to go dutch on the pizza as well.

    Here’s one interesting statistics and its implications on dating dynamics for young women:
    In 134 of the major cities in the US, single, childless women under the age of 30 on average earn 8% more than their male counterparts.

    By the way, I don’t think “mature, insightful, with lots of experience on life and business” can happen with only 10-15 years of age difference. That’s more common with men 45+.

    • OCSugarBaby ♥ says:

      @ Continental Traveler– geeze we need to shorten that “CT SD” You read my mind in a reply I created in my head for MI SD.
      @ Michigan SD – shortened to “MI SD” – ahh the art of conversation is one that will get you all the sex you ever wanted and then some. Also along with those words can be some sure fire “panty dropping” non bank breaking or even $ free actions you could take to turn this situation around. However you may just come back and thank CT SD in a few days for telling you the fabulous advice of re-activation. Force will not have a “happy ending”…
      Panty dropping ideas are abundant, just ask us! My favorites are things that when you take the time to listen to your SB talk about something and take an action to help or take an interest in. If remembering things she has told you is an issue, try taking a picture of it or send yourself a txt to remind yourself.
      Ladies, help him out with some panty dropping ideas… I love when my SD takes my car and disappears, he arrives home with it gas’d up, washed and oil changed. Ahhh total panty dropper!!!!

      @ Villa!!!!!!!

      • OCSugarBaby ♥ says:

        @ MI SD- I know you weren’t going to force her in a bad way. But still I was trying to show you a better way to use all that pent up sexual energy! Until the time is right to let loose!

  41. Bela says:

    Sorry Michigan :( That stinks!

  42. SoNJSugar says:

    I’m new to the Sugar Baby Bowl and I won’t be able to make it unfortunately to the party that takes place on the 8th. :(

    I do have a wishlist aptly titled “Sugar X Mas” , however I won’t share the link because not only do I think it’s not allowed here, but also for security purposes.

    • SD Guru says:

      yeah…have to keep up the right persona or someone is going to think I’m going soft…..

      Awwww….. you’re such a wuss! 😎

      Thanks NYCSB and SDGURU and everyone who helped with ideas, off to the Vday thread!!!!

      You’re welcome, we’ll expect a detailed report with pictures when you get back from wowing your SD!! 😉

      @NYC SB
      how to get more sex out of an sb? Easy, do not be sleezy.

      I thought you were giving away your secrets on how to get into your panties, not to every SB’s panties in general. Ok, so I’ll get rid of my sleazy suit from now on. Can I have the secret password now?? :mrgreen:

      Yes and yes…not SB’s, still counts?

      Sure, it still counts. We should compare notes about squirters and swimsuit models some time. Or are you still having identity crisis and it was your evil twin posting? 😛

      Shay needs to go through that same process for herself. Until then, it’s all just noise.

      Yup, we can only show her the door, but she’s the one has to walk through it.

      I would fall all over myself to get to a SB who does piano/rock climbing/ martial arts

      Would SB’s fall all over themselves for a SD who does piano/rock climbing/martial arts too? Maybe I should go get my nails done…

      Seriously tho, lots of couples (married, gay, youngsters playing at couples), some euro-trash, not too many singles.

      That depends on what part of Cancun you’re at and the time of year. One can find plenty of singles there if you know where to look.

      @Michigan SD
      We are supposed to get together again pretty soon and it’s my intention to just be a little more physical with her rather than just talking about it. If she balks at my advances then I’ll really be left with no choice.

      Save yourself some trouble and have an open and honest discussion with her before you see her again. If it’s not going to happen then why force the issue and have both parties end up pissed at each other.

      I’ve very little interest in returning to the emails, texts, meetings needed to try and establish a new sb

      I agree it can be a lot of work. But good things usually happen to those who work hard.

  43. Welp, I met with my latest SB yesterday, the no play one, for lunch and suffice it to say I was having a good time and didn’t bring up her lack of reciprocity in the sugar world. I’m just not ready to walk away yet because we really do have a good time together, well at least I do who really knows with her. We are supposed to get together again pretty soon and it’s my intention to just be a little more physical with her rather than just talking about it. If she balks at my advances then I’ll really be left with no choice.

    I’ve very little interest in returning to the emails, texts, meetings needed to try and establish a new sb, which is why I’m trying to not give up on this one to soon; It’s only been 6 weeks. And it took me months to even get to this stage. I guess I’m pot committed and just need to play out the cards now.

    I did run a search that includes potential sb’s that are further away but truthfully given my budget, a long distance sb just doesn’t seem practical.

    so much for drama free . . . lol

  44. NYC SB says:

    I was ensuring there is eye candy for US baby :) duh!

  45. Dandelion Wine says:

    WCSD, so let’s say the older gentleman is mature, insightful, caring, with a lot of experience in life and business, even highly intelligent – all likeable traits, right? But if the younger lady just wants to eat dinner and get physical once a week, why would any of his “advantage over a younger guy” traits matter? I certainly don’t argue that a young woman can be very attracted to an older man, and even fall in love (for purposes of this discussion let’s assume the gentleman is 10-15 years older, not 30-40-etc), but we are not talking about *that* kind of relationship, we are talking about NSA.

  46. Shay says:

    ok so… I’m going to show up at the restaurant wearing the emperor’s clothes with short buffed nude nails like a model. My eyebrows and hair will be great. I’ll be confident and talk about piano and rock climbing, and if the SD is half as good as Michael he’ll be won over?

    ty guys! <3

  47. Dandelion Wine says:

    NYC SB, a May- December romance in every meaning of the world! :)

  48. Green Eyed Sugar Lady says:

    On the topic of nails, the same goes for men.

    I always look at men’s hands, and while I think it’s perfectly fine for men to have hands that show they either work with their hands for a living (not too common with SD’s admittedly), or rebuild cars/garden/other hobbies that get one’s hands dirty…. I am really turned off by overly rough, dirty hands/nails, and when men don’t trim their nails it’s an ick factor x1000 to me.

  49. Muse says:

    I love having short fingernails. It’s just easier for me to literally stick my hands into whatever project I’m working on at the moment. I can’t stand fussing with long nails, even though some of my friends hate me for chopping off nails that can easily be long and beautiful. That said, I do make a point of keeping my hands nice, whether the nails are polished or simply buffed.

    NYC SB- Ahem. You’re going as a couple too. No cheating this time, woman!

  50. NYC SB says:

    There is nothing wrong with short nails… As long as they are groomed. Nothing worse than a person with disgusting nails or dirty fingernails

  51. Michael Alleycat says:

    @NYC SB – you’re asking me? Seriously tho, lots of couples (married, gay, youngsters playing at couples), some euro-trash, not too many singles.

  52. NYC SB says:

    Lily – virtual kisses

    Michael – I will be there myself in a bit … Glad u approve … Are the men hot too?

  53. Michael Alleycat says:

    @Shay – I would fall all over myself to get to a SB who does piano/rock climbing/ martial arts, has a brain and uses it. Nails can be useful and fun at times (grin) but to me they are a key indicator of lifestyle.

  54. Michael Alleycat says:

    Btw I am loving Cancun. The beer is cold, weather is warm, women are hot. I ain’t coming back. 

  55. SanDiego sb says:

    @sans panties

    i know….cringe…

  56. Lily says:

    Hmmmm… NYC SB on her 8th month with Mr. Wonderful. Can I get a virtual blown kiss for being the hostess that threw the event at which you two met? :) Shameless beg for some lovin’, I admit.

  57. Lisa says:

    solution to sexually inquisitive emails: DELETE AND BLOCK

  58. Sans Panties says:

    He’s back!!!!!

  59. VillaCypris says:

    SanDiegoSB — me, too. A few weeks ago, on the second message with someone, he said, “so, what are you into sexually – be explicit”.

    I replied, “You have just hit upon one of my pet peeves in this whole process – the inappropriate asking of questions of a highly personal nature. I wish you the best in your search.”

    Again, completely baffled as to why I cut off communication. Just not interested. Maybe I am “old-fashioned”, but i really rue the fact that there are less and less people who are willing to let things happen “organically” in a relationship. i can’t imagine meeting someone out, in person, for the first time, and start discussing sexually explicit topics, but yet via the internet it seems that is de rigueur.

    btw – * predilections ^^^^

  60. SanDiego sb says:

    @nyc sb
    “Easy, do not be sleezy. The less you bring sex up and ask for it the more of it you will get. The man who constantly asks sex questions and all he wants to know is what I am in sexually is such a turn off for me”

    I feel the same way, i get asked questions a lot , and its a huge turn off for me, and then the men i would be talking to would be baffled on why i don’t to meet any more or became uninterested.

  61. VillaCypris says:

    Shay – re: nails… I play piano, too, and that’s one reason I have shorter nails. No one has ever made mention of them.

    As Midwest said, be your self! Some people will like you, other people won’t! As some others mentioned yesterday, I think, everyone has their own predilictions, and if you fall outside those, so be it. Having a good sense of self-worth and self-confidence is very important, not just in the “sugar bowl” but in all aspects of life.

    Go out on your date and have a brilliant time!

  62. Bela says:

    Just breathe Shay. You’ll be fine! Smile :)

  63. WCSD says:

    DW – “I asked why a young woman would chose an older gentleman for a friend with benefits, when she could just be friends with benefits with a hot guy her own age?”

    Honestly, I have no idea, I’m not a young woman. But I also don’t understand men that love to date women who are 20 years older then them, or men who are sooooo into feet. You’d have to ask a young woman who is into older men.

    From what I’ve heard, they like the maturity, the experience in being able to mentor, they are actually attracted to that ‘salt and pepper’ hair. Maybe older men are more laid back, maybe the younger guys want to always split the cheque and their idea of going out to eat is heading to the local Olive Garden…

    Like I said, I don’t know why they don’t take the hotter, younger guy. Everyone has their tastes in relationships (whatever relationship that is) and thank god…otherwise we’d all be after the same people, and a lot of us would be very disappointed, and it would be a pretty boring world.

    Note: I didn’t say that my SB relationships are strictly FWB…there are ‘perks’, but like I said, if she is only interested in the perks and not the FWB, then she isn’t for me.

  64. NYC SB says:

    Continental travel – I’m not speaking from experience. My one month comment was regarding the women that get the monthly allowance and then make excuses to not see their sd throughout that month. One of the blog sds complained that his new sb did this… Arctic maybe? I suppose I have broken the 3 month curse … May through december (although our frequency is not much) … Woot woot :)

  65. Midwest SB says:

    Some things are too abstract to understand until all the pieces (experience, etc) are in place. For example…math was a complete mystery me until I took Physics. Math was the theory required to be able to do the calculations in Physics, but Physics gave math real-life applications and understandings. Some of this she will piece together…she may also make mistakes and learn more on her own. Either way, people come here for advice and that is what we offer. What is done with it is up to the recipient.

  66. ToughLove says:

    I wanted to chime in on the discussion about Shay’s first meeting. She’s been advised by some posters to “stick to her guns” and not compromise because she’ll lose the respect of her potSD, etc. The problem with the advice is she doesn’t know why it matters and doesn’t believe it matters. She’s just trying to be a good “student” and follow the advice of older, wiser, more experienced SB’s. This means the odds are she will fold because it’s not important to her, or she will insist “just because” and come across like a petulant child. Bad thing! All of the SB’s providing that advice have had time to establish reasons that make sense to THEM as to why their expectations are what they are, and Shay needs to go through that same process for herself. Until then, it’s all just noise.

    Ultimately, the human mind is malleable and I mean HIGHLY MALLEABLE. One of my mentors taught me “people can’t be convinced of something against their will, however, most people have no will, so it doesn’t really matter.” Her personal reasons are that WILL.

  67. ContinentalTravel says:

    “The key is to keep him around longer than a month.”

    When did the “three month curse” become “one month curse”? I’ve been reading a disturbing number of sugar relationships that last little more than a 6 weeks. I would think that married guys would want to keep a side fling going for a while. Maybe you should start demanding 2 weeks of platonic arrangement to week out the short term guys?

  68. Lisa says:

    Shay I can’t have nice nails either because I work for a living. Opening boxes and stocking stuff makes for less than attractive nails. have to keep my short and keep my nail clipper in my pocket while i’m working so I can be constantly clipping them off while i’m working.

  69. Midwest SB says:

    Shay – Be yourself sweetie. Even if you’re active, your nails can look filed, buffed, and a clear or nude coat of polish. If you notice, most models have active length, nude nails. You don’t have to do the long acrylics. Same with hair…blow it out, curl or straighten, but don’t feel like you have to go and get a $300 makeover. Every guy likes something different…from trampy to active to demure. Be you!

    You show great qualities of being an SB already. Don’t sweat it sista!

  70. Shay says:

    @ villa @ midwest

    ok thanks… midwest, nails really? I mean l like the way they look on other women but my lifestyle is a bit too active to really have them for myself. Piano/rock climbing/martial arts/typing, really it’s just so bad for me to have nails lol. And I like kinna fashionable clothes and stuff but I don’t really bother with it myself, prefer to spend $ on activities and technology.

    But I think for some SDs part of their fantasy is prolly just going out with some glamorous fashionable type girl with pretty nails and a handbag.

    Am I not going to be a good sb?

  71. Midwest SB says:

    Shay – VC covered it! Make sure your nails/ eyebrows/ hair all look fabulous, but don’t feel like to you have to spend a million to look great. You tend to get all nervous and worked up when you’ve stretched yourself too thin. Put on your confidence and WOW! him!

    WCSD – Nope…not gonna work :-)

  72. Dandelion Wine says:

    WCSD, you answered why you chose a SB over escort, but I asked why a young woman would chose an older gentleman for a friend with benefits, when she could just be friends with benefits with a hot guy her own age?

  73. VillaCypris says:

    NYCSB – agree 10000%. The subtlety of seduction wins out every time over explicit questions…. turn off indeed!

  74. VillaCypris says:

    I know!!!!!!!! It’s that meet to which i was referring… boooooooo…. too bad I missed it! And SSSSSSSSSS or whatever :)

  75. ToughLove says:


    Again, well said.

    People keep including me in their posts and I still don’t know why. When I recover from my identity crisis (Midwest!), I’ll begin posting again. Until then….

  76. NYC SB says:

    Wcsd – so modest for the blog heart throb … Let’s not forget just how many bloggers are crushing on you

    Guru – how to get more sex out of an sb? Easy, do not be sleezy. The less you bring sex up and ask for it the more of it you will get. The man who constantly asks sex questions and all he wants to know is what I am in sexually is such a turn off for me. A gentleman however, who is concerned about making this mutually beneficial will be rewarded. A good sd is hard to come by, once I find him I will make sure he is well taken care of and happy … The key is to keep him around longer than a month 😉

  77. NYC SB says:

    VC we definitely missed you during the labor day sugar sister meet.. Would have definitely been more trouble if you were around… :) labor day 2011 reunion you better be there!

  78. VillaCypris says:

    Shay – you asked what to wear on a first dinner date – the most important “thing” you could “wear” is self-confidence! Then you don’t need any clothes and can parade around like the emperor in the classic tale… 😀 KIDDING!

    wear something in which you feel stunning, comfortable, at ease, confident… whether that be jeans/top/heels, a flirty and/or sexy dress, or skirt/top… depends on the restaurant at which you will be dining, what is the ambiance, the atmosphere, the ‘dress code’ per se… and then choose accordingly.

    good luck! hope the date goes well.

  79. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    Thanks NYCSB and SDGURU and everyone who helped with ideas, off to the Vday thread!!!!

  80. WCSD says:

    “thanks hot rock star who can make women tear their clothes off whose sweet enough to let his family sleep in and watch his niece” – Did I say that? No I meant that I have an 18 year old groupie sleeping on my chest after my all night partying…..yeah…have to keep up the right persona or someone is going to think I’m going soft…..

  81. VillaCypris says:

    good morning from the tundra! :)

    SD Guru says:
    December 2, 2010 at 9:46 pm
    one of my goals is to meet you (Midwest SB) and NYCSB in person

    You know, that could be arranged… but I smell trouble and I don’t think anyone can handle the three of you together!

    Oooooooooooo really???????? I saw photographic evidence of the meet without me….. and good assessment – would definitely be trouble 😉

    Midwest says – Guru – It’s so on! I’m sure we could behave (at least for a little while). Villa gets to drive!
    ha Midwest…. as my niece says…. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaT????
    well, that would be the best way to keep me out of trouble… make me DRIVE!!!!!! hahahaha

    WCSD – awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww from me, too… those are special, priceless moments with a child!

  82. Bela says:

    I’ll work on it. I’m a little short on sunshine.

  83. Bela says:


  84. Midwest SB says:

    Texassugah – sending happy thoughts your way!

    Guru – It’s so on! I’m sure we could behave (at least for a little while). Villa gets to drive!

    Bela – Send a little sunshine too please!

  85. Midwest SB says:

    WCSD – That does help quite a bit…thanks hot rock star who can make women tear their clothes off whose sweet enough to let his family sleep in and watch his niece…can we have an ‘Awwwwwww” in the house please?

    It’s Friday, it’s Friday **** Happy Dance****

  86. Bela says:

    Happy Friday. sugars! I’m sending out some positive vibes so soak ’em up 😉

  87. WCSD says:

    NYSB – “Wcsd is a hottie so he can get away with forgetting to reimburse for stuff” – Now don’t make me blush….. And have I forgot in the past…yes, do I make up for it right away…absolutely. As FL-SD said…there are many moving parts in a date…and sometimes one of those parts gets missed…

    DW – “He might be a hot stud rockstar that can make women cry and rip their clothes off with just one glance” – I only wish. For me, not matter what age I am, or how I look, I really truly hope that ANY relationship I’m in is not all about the money. If it is, then I don’t want to be in that relationship. If a SB is only with me because of the $$ she gets, then that is where is starts to get into the ‘escort/hooker’ realm for me. I imagine that is the same for many SBs. They don’t want to be just a piece of meat and it only be about sex. That is what makes finding the right sugar relationship for each of us a challenge.

    BTW – there are advantages to being up at 4am, with my 3 week old neice sleeping on my chest (letting my sister and brother-in-law sleep a little), I get to answer all of the questions to me and OWN the blog….. :)

    Back to your regular programming….

  88. WCSD says:

    DW – “WCSD, please explain to me why a young attractive woman, who is not looking for commitment, would chose an older gentleman for indoor activities, if all she is looking for is a dinner and an occasional small gift (I assume by small you mean small in cost and not small in size) ?”

    For me, being in a SB/SD relationship isn’t all about ‘indoor activities’. If that’s all I was after then I agree, an escort/hooker would be a much more attractive option. In my view this world is more a friends with benefits type of deal, but the benefits are a little more defined and a little different than the typical FWB. Think of the differences in finding a IRL SB/SD relationship….these happen, and aren’t as ‘cut and dry’ as finding them on SA. Does that make them any less of an arrangement? Not in my eyes. This site does make it much (much, much) easier to be upfront about what you are looking for, which makes it easier to find a match that works for you. Maybe for you that is an allowance, all I’m saying is that for all that isn’t the case.

    Note to all: I’ve never said I don’t believe or give allowances. I’m a ‘combination’ daddy, and really go with the flow. I’m just a bit tired of people slamming how if you don’t get at least $X and it is paid by this method or frequency that it isn’t a real arrangment. To each his/her own. Just like everything else in life, it only matters what makes you happy, not what others think should make you happy….

  89. WCSD says:

    Midwest – I don’t disagree that many SBs who join the site are looking for an allowance daddy, rather than a gift daddy or a travel daddy, all I’m saying is that I’ve met people on the site you are looking for each of these and are offended if they are offered the other. Again, the point is each relationship is unique, and what is expected or needed is unique to each person. There is NO bad arrangement unless YOU choose to be in one that YOU don’t agree with (but who’s fault is that….)

    “When does p4p become mutually beneficial for more than just one date? How does that differ from being a pro?”

    OK, here is my stance on this one. The amount and the frequency that someone is paid (however that payment is) has NO bearing on the level of how mutual beneficial it is or their level of being a pro or not. Here is my example. Think of a rock band. Some of them get paid per performance, and some sign a two year contract for $X dollars, to create Y albums, and perform Z performances. Is one mutually more beneficial to the band (and the record label/venue) than the other? I don’t think so. I mean they both have their pros and cons. The contract is guaranteed money, more financially stable, but comes with much higher expectations and requirements. The ‘pay per performance’ has much lower guarantees, but a much more flexible arrangment, and really has much more ability to pick and choose where and when the band feels they want to play, and the venues want to show the talent. Also, there are hookers who charge $5000 an hour, and ones you can put on retainer (Here is $5000K for the month, and we’ll meet every Wed. at noon for an hour). Does the method of payment make any difference in whether they are a hooker or not?

    As for the question of a pro of not, my thought is a pro is exactly that a professional. I play hockey once a week in a beer league, I have fun not only on the ice, but hanging out with the guys, but I’m not a professional because I don’t make my living at doing it. Do I do some of the same things that a professional hockey player does? Yes. Does a professional do different things than me? Absolutely! So, in my opinion a pro is exactly that, someone who makes a living off of doing what they do. Are there professional escorts/hookers? Yes. Are there professional SBs? YES. Neither are appealing to me (and that was the other SDs point (don’t remember who) who mentioned that earlier, he doesn’t want a professional SB).

    In the end, the difference between a ‘hooker’ and a SB (for me) is the connection we have. Are their things in common? Yes (sex, some type of ‘business transaction’, etc.). But they are also vastly different. I care about my SBs, I have a little white knight syndrome (which isn’t bad) with a SB…where a hooker is much more of a business transaction (for me). But as we all know, that line can become grey and it definitely isn’t black and white (or we all wouldn’t be talking about it so much).

    So I completely agree with “the whole package is of infinite value. Some things cannot have a price tag placed on them…including our ladies.” My point is that the same can be said about the SDs. Some women aren’t looking for a price tag, but are looking for an experience they can’t find elsewhere. Neither is better or worse…

  90. Shay says:

    @ WCSD – really well said. Helps to bring things in perspective.

    @ all – what do I wear to a first dinner date with an SD? No I am not joking. I am really that helpless. 😀

  91. Dandelion Wine says:

    I wasn’t talking specifically about WCSD. He might be a hot stud rockstar that can make women cry and rip their clothes off with just one glance, but then his experience wouldn’t translate well into the context of the conversation that was raging on before he showed up, now would it? :)

    (but just out of curiosity – what are your parameters of “older”?)

  92. VillaCypris says:

    hey TexaSugah- great to see you, too!
    hope all is well xxxx

    • SD Guru says:

      one of my goals is to meet you (Midwest SB) and NYCSB in person

      You know, that could be arranged… but I smell trouble and I don’t think anyone can handle the three of you together! 😛

      @NYC SB
      i wouldnt mind sharing how an SD can get the most sex out of me…

      I’m all ears!! :mrgreen:

      @Dandelion Wine
      WCSD, please explain to me why a young attractive woman, who is not looking for commitment, would chose an older gentleman…

      Here’s a hint… WCSD is not an “older” gentleman like most SD’s!! :)

  93. TexaSugah says:

    Lisa! It’s great to see you again! While I was off the. Log I woukd run through to see if you were around. I hope things are going well.

    Hey Villa and Midwest. I’m so infrequently here that by the time I read something I want to comment on… Fuggetaboutit.

    Oh well… Maybe tomorrow. Sugary dreams all.

  94. NYC SB says:

    Wcsd is a hottie so he can get away with forgetting to reimburse for stuff :p

  95. Dandelion Wine says:


  96. Dandelion Wine says:

    WCSD, please explain to me why a young attractive woman, who is not looking for commitment, would chose an older gentleman for indoor activities, if all she is looking for is a dinner and an occasional small gift (I assume by small you mean small in cost and not small in size) ?
    Even if said gentleman kept well, what would make him more desirable than a guy in his 29’s -30’s?
    Provided the young guy is not a deadbeat, surely he can afford 1-2 dinner dates a week, no?

  97. FL-SD says:

    Travel expenses… yes, customary. Yes sometimes forgotten. Happened to me recently… in the moment of saying goodby, I forgot to reimburse parking and misc. on her end… texted her immediately… These things happen… sometimes there are a lot of moving parts… The key is communication & giving the other person the benefit of the doubt… keys to a flexible, successful arrangement, IMHO

  98. VillaCypris says:

    Just as an aside, I’m going to add that I think it’s such a tragedy that just because one is on “the internet” or “online”, that everyone assumes he or she is “suspect”, or a “fake” or “not real”… most of the women I know on SA, via the blog, are highly educated, gorgeous, “real” women who have so much to offer a man… and the few men with whom I’ve communicated are the same… successful, beautiful, well-spoken people… as I’ve told them, it’s just a matter of finding someone with whom you can “connect”… there are amazing people on this site, of both sexes.

  99. Midwest SB says:

    CT – Freakin’ Hilarious!!!!

    …but true.

  100. ContinentalTravel says:


    Based on other blog comments, I think if he makes it through the first dinner without talking about sex, or inviting you back to his room, he’s a very promising candidate. If he can make it through the next dinner without mentioning sex, he should be a front runner.

  101. VillaCypris says:

    sweet!!!! MSP is a great place…. I’d be happy to show you around!

  102. Midwest SB says:

    I’m looking everywhere! If I get an interview in your area, you will be the first to know :-)

  103. VillaCypris says:

    midwest ——— hahahh!!!!! great idea! then we could double date with nycsb and muse!!!!!!

    unf not many… but i’m working on it! 😀

  104. Midwest SB says:

    Villa – Any solid career openings in your area…then WE can do Chipotle and you can be my wifey :-)

  105. VillaCypris says:

    Hi gemi! :) great to see you back! :)

  106. Midwest SB says:

    Gemi – James accidentally forgot to reimburse me for a babysitter on our first meet…turns out he was a little nervous (Sorry James). It was the first thing he brought up in our very next conversation and it was quickly resolved. It can be a red flag, but if he doesn’t want to mess this up with such an amazing SB such as yourself, then he will mention it right away. Thank him for the lovely evening and see what comes up on your next conversation.

  107. VillaCypris says:

    hi Midwest!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!! I just said that to my best friend today… 2011 is going to be a MUCH better year… one of my goals is to meet you and NYCSB in person…. loved the photos…. you both are gorgeous!xx

  108. Gemi says:

    I don’t know how it even got to this point to be honest…. I was talking about being worried about falling asleep on the road to people jumping down this pot’s back because he neglected to give me moolah for my travel down. I dont know guys, maybe he does have problems handing over cash and maybe he just honestly forgot. I had to book it out of there pretty quick, we didn’t have the longest of goodbyes. I mean whatever, I know that many of the good SDs pay for travel expenses, and yes it is ALWAYS appreciated on my end. I had a very nice dinner with a very nice gentleman, and really isn’t that what the first meet is about??

    Hi Villa!! :)

  109. Midwest SB says:

    Hi Vroom Vroom Villa! Hang in there sweetie! We have a whole new year coming up!

  110. Midwest SB says:

    WCSD – Well said.

    If I can piggy back a bit and just ask that our SDs accept that SBs are drawn to SA for different reasons than SDs…most of the time to solve a financial crisis. Hell, when you type in student loans, SA comes up as the top three hits. It’s marketed as a place where a woman can shamelessly seek financial help as a part of a mutually beneficial arrangement and feel like the men know and expect this. Of course drama free and NSA are appealing, but MOST times it’s not the top draw. I’m not suggesting SBs come here as victims of advertising, but SBs will come here with expectations of financial assistance to help with needs or goals. Please don’t criticize women if they want to pursue this seriously and find that dinner, gifts and travel do not solve their immediate issues. in addition to financial benefits, a smart SB will realize how precious a genuine SD is and benefit from him physically, professionally, and personally. Resounding theme is that everyone has their own arrangement and should not be criticized on either pole.

    As for amounts…I don’t see a ton of entitlement going on here or even saying (x) is too low if that’s what she needs/wants. We ARE saying that the ATTITUDE behind it is borderline treating a woman like a pro.

    When does p4p become mutually beneficial for more than just one date? How does that differ from being a pro? Does that make sense at all? I’m so lucky in that the gentlemen I have known have and still do enhance my life in a very special way and I hope I do the same for them. Something tells me I must be doing something right. The allowance was a large benefit, but now does seem to pale in comparison….the whole package is of infinite value. Some things cannot have a price tag placed on them…including our ladies.

  111. VillaCypris says:

    Thanks Stephan! 😀 been a difficult year for me and I’ve been “hiding out” so to speak…. but that accomplishes nothing. Fear not I’m still an avid “reader” and SA is by far my favourite site! xx

  112. stephan says:

    Hi Villa 😀 It’s great to “see” you back here in the blog bowl!

  113. VillaCypris says:

    Nice to see you, too, Adoc…. hope all is well! xx

  114. Lisa says:

    Hi Villa :) Great to see you tonight

    WCSD It would be essential that travel expenses be covered as I have no extra income for traveling and no credit cards. If the sd was to meet me in my city, without it was in my neighborhood, taxi fare would make it a lot easier for me to meet someone in another area as my city is very spread out and public transport is sparse and not safe at night.

  115. VillaCypris says:

    Hello all!

    I’m one of the “old” – god i hope not – bloggers. So good to see so many of you back / still here!

    “Lisa” is great, by the way… we have become good friends after emailing every day for some months now. Percy lives on!

    And OC!!!!!!! Great to ‘see’ you…. miss you!

    You too, Stephan :)

    and Guru… from a ‘past life’…. thanks for your encouraging posts…. :)


  116. ContinentalTravel says:


    It’s a bit concerning that he mentions but forgets. Potentially he might have mental obstacles on handing over cash. A few SBs has talked about this on their blogs: gifts, travel, dinner, hotel, and concert tickets are fine, but handing over cold hard cash would be too much for some men’s ego. Some SDs on this blog provide a small amount of cash as “good will” gift. Would be nice if he provides that next time.

  117. WCSD says:

    OK…I’ve been missing for a while…but needed to add my two cents (only worth $1.98 with the exchange). I won’t be quoting anyone, and am just going by the ‘jist’ of how I interpretted all the drama….

    First, Lily I don’t agree that a SD must support an allowance. A SD/SB relationship is about something mutually agreed to. If a SB is fine with someone giving small gifts, taking out to a nice restaurant, and a nice trip is good for her, then so be it. I’m not going to Match.com to find someone like this because feelings get involved, which is the main reason for having a SB…no ‘major’ feelings, no drama (can’t tell from the blog though).

    As for some of the comments from SBs about needing an allowance of a signifcant amount, I’m very much a ‘to each his own’ on that choice. The only thing I don’t like is the tone on the blog that if you accept $500 per meet, or anything less than ‘four figures’ you are a skank, whore, prostitute, etc. and shouldn’t be on this site (clear out all these people, and only have ‘elite’ SBs). Does the amount of money that someone takes define who they are?? Wow! I hope not. That would mean that in life in general the amount that someone earns on their job defines who they are. That would be a very narrow view of the world.

    If TL or SG can get what they are looking for in the budget they have, then so be it. Those women are no less (and no more) of SBs or women than the others who demand $5k per month. And those SDs are no less (or more) that others as well.

    In the end, Guru is right…..let’s learn from how others do things in this sugar world. Let’s voice our opinions on how they affect US, and stop with the bashing of SBs and SDs who are ‘scum’ (my word, but my impression on how others are thinking and projecting) if they are accepting $$ or giving $$ (or gifts, etc.) that are not in line with what they themselves would accept.

    I’ll even quote Lisa as an example (yet a fairly harmless one) – “Gemi any legit sd should cover your traveling expenses to meet him, it should not be an issue to him.’. Essentially that is saying if you are ok with not having travel expenses, or giving it, you are not good enough to be here. Now, I agree that for ME, I cover travel expenses, and that is what I do. And I’m sure Lisa means that for HER a SD would need to cover travel expenses ahead of time for HER to consider him a possible match. But that is a very, very different tone that ANYONE who would consider such a person is not ‘legit’….

    Anyway…off my soap box…back to your regular programming (this is more fun than watching a soap opera).

  118. adoc says:

    and yes—- omigoodness adorable baby :) i could bea midwife i swear- amazing amazing jobs :) she was sooo beautiful and prune like 😛

  119. adoc says:

    @SD twice: someone who will drag you down with them? u want someone not broke???? Im sorry, but alot of women (myself included) are on this site because we are in school and yes…broke. Ive eaten cereal for 3 days straight and am the world expert in how to cook rice a million different ways. Ive mastered the art of driving my car in such a way that i safe petrol….ie in neutral down all the hills
    Does being broke and poor make me less interesting? No? Having a sugar daddy in the past who supported me…made life better for us both. He knew i was broke and solved that…in response he got an adoring woman who had more time for him (now that money worries meant she didn’t have to work as many hours).
    Having a sugar baby is your chance to improve her lifestyle- too help her through school, to fund a business. that should be part and parcel of your motivation.

  120. Lisa says:

    Gemi any legit sd should cover your traveling expenses to meet him, it should not be an issue to him.

  121. Gemi says:

    SD twice – He flew to my state, I drove to meet him in the area he was staying (not my home town). Never was it mentioned paying any of my expenses and as I’m not broke, I didn’t mention it to him. At dinner he offered to pay for it, but then forgot as I was leaving. He apologized over txt last night after I got home and offered to re-imburse me. So. We’ll see what happens. If he does, that is all well and a good sign. If he doesn’t… no dice. Whatever and life moves on.

    What am I supposed to approximate??

  122. @a-doc – wow, what a great day! Delivering your first baby, very cool.

  123. SD TWICE says:

    Gemi, this story has me confused. You actually met him last night, but he didn’t give you these expenses then? Even if you don’t know the exact amount, some approximation. Its a little odd to me.

  124. Lisa says:

    Thanks for your comment Stephan.

    Back from my 8 lap walk around the track and picking up daughter at work, so depressing to walk through the mall everyday when you’re broke :(

    walking over to visit family now.

  125. Gemi says:

    Continental : He’s offered to cover my gas and parking garage fee from last night, and I think he will. I haven’t asked for ONE DAMN THING yet… I’m not that kind of person, I won’t ASK for money, I won’t ASK for a gift, I might hint, but then I might back off and say I can take care of it myself. I think it was baffling him last night…he was saying he wanted to take me shopping, on trips, buy me things, etc but I just want to get to know him better first before I start accepting. I’m just a diff type of SB. Now if a SD asked me what I want or need…I’ll answer honestly, but I won’t be like “Oh pay this bill”.

    Woah. I went off on a rant. My bad. Oops. I think its time I get that sushi to mellow me out, lol.

    But yes I think if he’s willing to go on a few dates and doens’t mind covering travel costs to meet me again, then he’s the real deal. :)

  126. Gemi says:

    so I’m thinking maybe I’ll splurge and get some Sushi tonight for dinner.

    I hope everyone is having fun wherever they are.

    And LISA!! Good to see old (but awesome) faces on the blog. :)

  127. ContinentalTravel says:


    Did he reimburse you for travel costs then? The blog posts seem to indicate that if a potSD is willing to wait a few dates, and helps with the costs of going to such dates, he’s usually a promising pot.

  128. Shay says:

    spammity spam, please ignore

  129. Shay says:

    how do i bold text? [b]bold test 1[/b] bold test 2

  130. Shay says:

    @ midwest – well it still doesn’t make tons of sense to me but if everyone feels so strongly about it I guess I will just do it for now and see how it turns out.

    As for an SD trying to trap me into a marriage, omg areyoujoking? I thought that was the woman’s job!! ffs. I’m not against attachment or even falling in love or a type of love but there will be no marriage and no bebe. Not me, not my deal, now or ever with anyone tyvm.

    @ SD Twice – so weird right? and I swear he had NOT A TOUCH OF BITTERNESS. nothing that I could detect anyway. whatsoever. and I’m a pretty good read on people. For instance I don’t think you are as mean as half the blog apparently thinks you are 😛

  131. Gemi says:

    Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Train is not an option for me, maybe I can suggest a car service. The pot SD I met last night even offered to get me a hotel room (of my own and only me) but I had to decline because it would have taken longer for me to get BACK to work the next morning (and me with no fresh change of clothes, LOL!!).

    Ladies, I think I met one of the most honest genuine SDs last night. I think I’m going to go with a two-date rule before I make my decision… I just want to get to know the PERSON first before we fling ourselves off the cliff of happy sugar-ness. We’ll see if he agrees to a second date in the future :)

    On a diff note, what have been the SBs experiences with “younger” SDs… guys in their 25-39 range??

  132. Midwest SB says:

    SD Twice- It’s absolutely true that flexibility is key in a long-lasting arrangement. My thoughts are that the flexibility comes after you enter an arrangement that suits both parties. Flexibility in schedules, time together, experiences, scenarios that require one or the other to find alternative solutions, etc. It may be a line in the sand, but I find flexibility and negotiation to come at different stages.

    On that note, there should be a time when those in an arrangement will “review” the terms and make sure it is in fact still mutually beneficial. This is when it’s a great time to bring up that perhaps traveling to see your SD 3-4 times a month is challenging to the rest of your schedule or that he may not necessarily feel like your top priority when you two are together, etc. It’s important to touch base once in a while to make sure everyone is happy! :-)

  133. SD TWICE says:

    Flexibility is a huge key to a lasting arrangement. No relationship lasts any length of time without flexibility.

  134. SD TWICE says:

    Bi, Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Its not easy. That’s why I pretty much just look for something that works with someone; almost whatever. Sometimes it lasts for months and months or a year or more.

    Shay, you found someone that’s had it worse than me in some ways! 😮

  135. Midwest SB says:

    Lisa – you do have a big heart! I’m glad to see you back!

    SD Twice – I’m truly disappointed…this is not the guy I knew.

    A-Doc – Woo Hoo! There can’t be too many experiences that can top bringing a baby into the world! You sure did bounce back with a vengeance.

    Shay – As time goes by, you will understand more completely. Here you get bits and pieces and going on dates will fill in the rest. All I can do is hope that you trust what others have experienced and go with it. I was a newbie a year and a half ago and my friends here were amazing. I can say that I have not had a nightmare date and have had sweet success in the sugar bowl. To address your statement specifically:

    “It’s interesting that there is so much support for setting your “price” and refusing to negotiate but it’s ok to be willing to set a diff price with someone else later on. ” Based on your initial statement about this particular pot SD, you weren’t sure about your interest in him….therefore I saw it as an opportunity to try out your tactics and see what happens. You don’t have to lower your allowance expectations the next time, but you definitely don’t want to lower them this time.

    “Great SDs don’t grow on trees, you must feel really strong about the dignity loss of negotiation if you’re willing to scrap an entire relationship because you perhaps set the wrong initial price.” Great SDs are few and far apart…relentless screening will get you through a great deal of the fakes and those who are incompatible before the meet has to happen. The rest are the ones with whom we have had initial discussions and expectations set so that we are in agreement that a meet is the appropriate next step. What you will learn is that there have been many occasions where men agree to these initial expectations, but hope you will change your mind later when you fall in love with their looks, charm and wisdom, get married and live happily ever after. This is why you don’t negotiate. Leverage and credibility disappear once you compromise. Not only that, you are now in an arrangement that is already unsatisfactory and not meeting your needs…how long will that last? I strongly believe in the theory that it can take at least three months to meet, like and enter an arrangement with a great SD.

    Phew…that was a long-winded reply.

  136. adoc says:

    @Southern gent two: i earn nothing, like literally nothing $206 on student hardship and maybe 100-200 extra from parttime work- so $406 at most:) summer work helps but my income is never that high. When i intern ill earn something crazy like $25 an hour…by the time u divide a doctors starting wage by number of hours worked- its pretty low!

    @lisa: how are you?

  137. SD TWICE says:

    NYC SB says:
    December 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm
    What a nightmare on the blog! Typical though

    Lily I can explain your history with SD twice if you want …

    -> How could you unless you have access to my emails and SA acct, which I suspect may be the case after what looks like a cyber attack on me.

    And put it up right here and show everyone Lily lied.

  138. SanDiego sb says:

    I have my first out of state pot comming to see me on the 10th, he lives in florida. We speak often enough on the phone, and he says hes in cali enough where it would work between him and an sb.

    Has anyone here had an out of state sd/sb where it did actually work?

  139. stephan says:

    Lisa! SO glad to see you, it’s been a while! Glad Percy is doing fine too :)

  140. carebear says:

    Looks like a bomb went off in here.

  141. Bela says:

    Way to go A-Doc!!!!

  142. Michael Alleycat says:

    @Shay – those stories are TOO funny!! Flew in a girl twice, only yo br stood up twice? $600 dinner with a bulimic girl? Sounds like a Steve Martin movie.

    In case anyone thinks I am making fun of the bulimic girl, I’m not, just laughing at the situation. Addictions are no fun, been there, done that, got the tshirt.

  143. adoc says:

    @michael- nz is not a third world country!!!!

    I delivered a baby today 😀 uni is nearly over for the year

    I have a summer job lined up and some buisness ideas to trial. my former sd said he would help- life is good :)

  144. Shay says:

    @ continental @ midwest @ lily

    It’s interesting that there is so much support for setting your “price” and refusing to negotiate but it’s ok to be willing to set a diff price with someone else later on. Great SDs don’t grow on trees, you must feel really strong about the dignity loss of negotiation if you’re willing to scrap an entire relationship because you perhaps set the wrong initial price.

    So on another note, I had a skype video call with a very nice SD who lives way the hell across the map from me. He seems to have met a whole armload of SBs, but his experiences ranged from medium to awful. He said he’s been approached by not one but seven female-female couples (four of which he estimated were pros), flown in a few different girls who never showed up (one he flew in twice to get stood up twice), and once paid for a $600 dinner with a bulimic girl who ordered and consumed three entrees but didn’t keep any of it down. Yet still he sticks around on the site and was sooo funny and nice and sweet!

    I asked him why he isn’t more perturbed by his dismal/hilarious experiences. “I’m not worried about the quality of the overall sb pool,” he said. “All I need is one good sb.” Sweet right? I feel like if I don’t go to him, I should offer him my services as an sb screener, because he’s very nice and doesn’t deserve to get ripped off like he has! He said he takes more precautions now (like video skyping me to see if I had a russian accent or lesbian lover prowling the background) but overall I perceive him as being very vulnerable.

  145. Lisa says:

    Hi Midwest, Percy is fine. I rescued another baby that had fallen out of his nest underneath the freeway underpass (found him on my walk to the supermarket on my b-day actually) but he was so young and passed away 5 days later.

    • OCSugarBaby ♥ says:

      Miss Lisa Penelope? (OC …wipes eyes and blinks, blinks, blinks) IT is YOU :)
      Oh so glad you put on your “Big Girl Panties” and joined us again. Miss you sweetie! Bunches!!!
      Sending love and hugs to you and Percy. Very sorry to hear about your other rescue. You have such a generous heart :) ~OC

  146. Midwest SB says:

    Hi Lisa!!! Nice to see you! How is Percy?

  147. NYC SB says:

    What a nightmare on the blog! Typical though

    Lily I can explain your history with SD twice if you want …

  148. SD Guru says:

    Once again, I’d strongly encourage anyone who has personal drama to settle it privately and not drag the blog through it. Thank you.

  149. Bela says:

    Yay BiBaby!! Good Luck on Sunday :)

    Alleycat – It’s interesting what you say about not being able to read minds. The issue was the same for me too. The minute you tell a man you NEVER want to get married, they get a little uneasy as if they just don’t know how to handle that information. One said I was “too European” even though I honestly had no idea of what he meant by that. I just said thank you.

    IRL tends to yield more men who don’t completely understand the idea of being wooed. SD’s are more likely to realize that if they can make me smile, I can return the favor.

  150. Lisa says:

    I have met SD-twice and whereas he was a nice guy who helped me, his main objective is not a sb, but a combination live-in nanny/girlfriend.
    I spent my last evening in NY babysitting his young children while he tending to a last minute family emergency. He invited me to visit again in the summer, I considered it asked if he would show me the sites this time but he said no and broke contact with me when I suggested doing something I wanted to do. The old timers on here know he is

  151. Jessie says:

    OMG, do you guys ever get tired with the regurgitation? I’ve only been on a few times and I’ve seen the same thing said 100 different ways.

    Thanks Midwest SB for trying to steer the convo in a different direction. What a pity we’re all sooo focussed on being “right” that we couldn’t take a break and celebrate the approaching season.

  152. Lily says:

    I third Third World SB’s opinion on size of income having little to do with how positive, interesting, or non-loser-y a lady is.

  153. SouthernGent2 says:

    Have I missed anything today? Does the allowance debate rage on?

  154. BiBaby says:

    what makes me a solid 3-5k? That’s the range I need and I’m happy with in return for a weekly commitment. it’s as simple as that. I’m a former swimsuit model and pageant winner (many times over) and have intelligence to match my looks. I am sure there are far more beautiful women than myself but it is up to them to put an allowance forth that THEY feel comfortable with and not really my concern. A pot SD can either afford me or they can’t and I no longer deviate. I USED to settle for 1-3k after coming down from 3-5k and those didn’t even get past 1-2 meets. the longest ones I’ve had so far were both with men I set high standards with so at least if I’m without sugar for awhile, the sugar I got carries me further.

    I have a new pot I am meeting Sun so I am keeping all my rules and so far it has been highly rewarding.

    BTW I am unemployed but do charity work as a fundraiser 20hrs a week in addition to school, so I definitely have “something” going on in my life. I second Third World SB’s position on the matter. :)

  155. SanDiego sb says:

    hasn’t even been a week and i think its time fore a new topic, geez.

  156. Lily says:

    Oh Michael, you know I understand why you’re playing in the sugarbowl. :) we’ve discusses it enough one-on-one & you know I think you’re aces! :)

    SD TWICE – Guru will send you my email address & you can aim sourness at me via that route & spare the blog.

    Midwest & others – for the record, SD TWICE & I have zero drama/history apart from whatever shots he’s taken at me on this blog under various screen names & my simply retorting briefly & wondering about his fixation with me, but weathering them every time with no skin off my nose. He has hinted twice at us having communicates via SA but I do not have any reason to believe that this is true.

  157. Michael Alleycat says:

    @Lily – re your question “Why an SB & not a non-sugary traditional relationship or non-sugar-based “girlfriend on the side?”

    I tried the traditional IRL dating sites eg match.com, horrible experience. Somehow, everybody i met wanted to either get married, meet their soulmate, have candlelit dinners, or walk hand-in-hand on a moonlit beach. Seriously.

    Sugar is more fun, less aggravation, and the dance is very different. The relationship is very open and straightforward, which for us men is a real blessing, most of the guesswork has been removed.

    That’s an interesting point actually. Men are notoriously bad at figuring out what is going on in a woman’s mind, sugar makes the whole relationship easier for a man to understand and manage. IRL relationships, most men don’t stand a chance.


    • SD Guru says:

      First class lie flat seat, four course meal with champagne, selection of first run movies, and blogging at 30,000 ft with in flight wifi… AM I NUTS?? :mrgreen:

      Over the past six months I’ve read just about every single post in the blog and got a feel for the cast of characters in it. I have corresponded with some by email and even had the pleasure of meeting a few in person. I have a pretty good idea of who said what to whom, when, and why on the blog, plus all the behind the scene wranglings in keeping the blog running smoothly. And my photographic memory is aided by blog tools available to moderators.

      What happened the past two days is a good example of people who are passionate about the sugar world expressing a variety of opinions. Of course they don’t always agree and sometimes feelings can get hurt. But as I wrote in the “blog etiquette” page, we can’t control how people choose to express themselves, so the only control we have is how we choose to react and respond to them. Have a sense of humor and don’t take yourself too seriously. None of us have anything to prove to anyone here.

      I know most of you are mature enough and any hurt feelings are only temporary so let’s move on. I’d encourage everyone to go do whatever works for them and whatever makes them happy to enjoy their journey in the sugar world.

      SD TWICE – You’ve got mail!

  158. Michael Alleycat says:

    SDTwice – as my grandma used to say, if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. Manners go a long way.

  159. Midwest SB says:

    SD Twice – even if you don’t agree with Lily, she does provide a valuable perspective and this is a public blog. Obviously, you two have some history and unresolved issues which would be better off handled offline. We do appreciate any valuable insights you have to provide regarding arrangements, however, the following posts do not seem to provide as such (just from today):

    SD TWICE says:
    December 2, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Lily, why don’t you try Eros. You aren’t a paying SA member (or even a current member?) anyway, so it would be no loss.


    SD TWICE says:
    December 2, 2010 at 8:03 am

    ToughLove says:
    December 1, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    What the HELL are you talking about?

    -> Falsified quotes is one of the techniques used by the blog mafia to muscle the discussion into appearing a certain way.


    If your mood is sour today, go do something that brings you joy and stop trying to bring negativity to our public place of advice.


  160. ContinentalTravel says:


    Tell him that you’re worth at least 3k, and tell him that you look better than your pictures. Have a face to face meet, and show him that you’re more than just a face and a rack. Tell him that you’re not an escort looking for a side client, but a genuine lady looking for a generous benefactor. Are you willing to have one SD only? If you do, emphasize that.

  161. ContinentalTravel says:

    I agree with midwest_SB that negotiation over allowance does poison the relationship, especially if it’s a back-and-forth kind of negotiation.

    Ladies — if you have to negotiate, let your SD make an offer. If that’s too low for you, let him know and go on to the next one. Emphasize to his that you NEED more than what he’s offering. If he comes to his senses and return to you with a better offer, consider it. Once you throw out a number, stick to it. If you can compromise on your allowance, you can compromise on everything else.

  162. Lily says:

    Shay – definitely go to the date & follow midwest’s advice.

    SDs- no one but Arctic & Continental dared answer my question?
    Why an SB & not a non-sugary traditional relationship or non-sugar-based “girlfriend on the side?”

    If being with a girl with her finances in healthy repair (btw the economy has sucked for awhile now for many of us, in case you hadn’t heard), then why not look for a lady who earns quite well & expects no support from you, and just focus on picking up the check for dinners & occasional gifts?

    Seems like a lot of SDs want that kind of a relationship, providing that little ‘extra’ into a lady’s life but not feeling put upon for significant contributions…. luckily most women are not SBs and will play by those rules. Try match.com?

  163. Jessie says:

    Good Morning guys,

    My family usually decorate on black Friday, so we already have our tree up and the living room is already decorated. I’m still working on the other rooms. Christmas is absolutely my favorite holiday, and I love the feeling that it brings out in most people…that of goodwill and love.

    One of our traditions is for us each to open a Christmas gift on Christmas eve. I always steer everyone to the one I wish them to open by making little sounds, (usually clearing my throat, or whispering I wouldn’t if I were you :) ).

  164. Midwest SB says:

    Ladies – I think our SDs need a little lovin…what do you say? It’s Thursday…one more workday and it’s a little freedom. Time to shift the mood a bit :-)

    This weekend, we’re going to get our Christmas tree and enjoy our little tradition. Any holiday traditions you care to share?

  165. Midwest SB says:

    SD Twice – I believe there are sites dedicated to conspiracy theory. Let’s stick to sugar, shall we? I’m sure you could share some insight as to how an SB has “wowed” you in the past. BTW.. I do fully agree with your tip on starting the discussion about prior experiences/ arrangements and what did/did not work for you. I’ve had great success with that opening topic and it screens rather efficiently.

  166. Midwest SB says:

    Michael – I fully understand. Most everyone has endured that “one” (or two, or three) who have coerced, manipulated, etc. Every day, I am ever thankful for the men and women here who advised me through my ventures and have guided me away from those situations…I am truly a lucky lady. I still believe it’s worth going through those to have a greater appreciation when the real thing comes along. (((hugs)))

  167. SD TWICE says:

    ToughLove says:
    December 1, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    What the HELL are you talking about?

    -> Falsified quotes is one of the techniques used by the blog mafia to muscle the discussion into appearing a certain way.

  168. Third World SB says:

    Yikes, why does there seem to be the assumption that if you are not pulling in enough of a paycheck to support yourself, you don’t have something going on in your life, or you are not interesting and positive? Isn’t an international photographer, an artist/author, an aspiring model/actress, or someone who does charity work full-time just as likely to be interesting and positive as say, someone who is working in retail and putting themselves through school?

    Maybe that wasn’t your point, and you are just saying that IF you’re going to support a SB, she better have something interesting going on in her life, be working towards a goal, be a positive person, etc. In which case, I totally see that, and if I was a SD, I’d agree. But to tie “interesting, motivated, and positive” to “earns a paycheck large enough to support herself” is kind of a mistake, in my opinion.

  169. Michael Alleycat says:

    @MidWest – I am the eternal optimist! But I am still pissed at getting played so skillfully by my previous Canadienne SB.

  170. SD TWICE says:

    SG2, I understand what you are saying about not supporting an SB. You want someone with something going in their life, someone interesting and positive, not some loser who will drag you down with her and make you miserable.

    I have supported an SB. At the time I needed a lot and I pretty much got that in return. It was a good arrangement in that sense.

  171. Midwest SB says:

    Shay – It’s a great experience to just go on the date and “hone” your first meet skills. This is a critical time for credibility though (BiBaby can vouch). Do not apologize for putting out the 3-5K number or let him draw you into renegotiating. Since this is an experimental date at best, if he poofs because you stood your ground, it’s ok. The NEXT date you have with a different pot gives you the chance to decide if you want to try again with 3-5K or drop to a range of 1-3K (make sure this is in your profile). Once you compromise on your range, it sets a tone that tends to leave anything up for renegotiation at that point. When he asks, give him that sweet smile and let him know you have goals to attain…then be quiet. Let him be the one to make the next statement. You must realize you are meeting with very savvy, successful businessmen who negotiate deals all day long. They will understand when a deal makes sense to them and when it doesn’t and act accordingly. You get a wonderful dinner and perhaps what you set out for in the beginning. If not, you pursue the next opportunity. Lastly, chemistry is so important in an arrangement, so if you’re not that into him, it would be unfair to pursue it just for the money. He will sense this quickly and move on.

    SDs – I’m not coaching her on “maximizing” her dollar, but on skills of keeping a man’s respect, being confident, and not letting the arrangement become a disappointment. You know that when you compromise on aspects that are important to you, it becomes a less desirable scenario.

  172. SD TWICE says:

    Shay, you may have found a good one, IF you actually like him once you meet. ts a great situation when one side happens to be in the other’s town for some reason. Enjoy your date whatever happens in terms of chemistry and reaching an agreement.

    I personally prefer a one on one between us about what you need and how I can fill those needs to the “what have you done in the past?” question.

  173. Midwest SB says:

    NY Gent – You both deserve the “gent” compliment! I didn’t see where he was disrespected myself, but I’m also still wiping the sleep from my eyes…where’s coffee?!?

    Gemi – I really liked Third World SB’s suggestions. It’s ok to suggest a place closer for you or another form of transportation (car service, train, etc.). It’s a risk to drive when you’re tired, but an even greater risk to drive after a few cocktails. I understand he assumes that risk if he drives out, but he’s smart enough to decide if he needs to stay at a hotel or drive back.

    Jessie- I live in the Midwest with limited choices of SDs. Since I’m 1.5 hours from Chicago, I put Chicago as my location. Then in my profile, I explain that I am 1.5 hours away. I also put I was willing to travel. Traveling definitely comes with it’s challenges, but is very rewarding. You might consider getting a passport just in case. :-)

    ESB – NYC SB and FLSD said it so well…I swooned! Definitely remembering the little things can go a long way. In addition, take the initiative to make plans for the two of you on your visits, always look your best, ask questions about him (favorite things to do, family, hobbies, etc) and ALWAYS keep the drama at home. Don’t be afraid to have the difficult conversations that can come up in the beginning…being able to troubleshoot early on gives the arrangement strength on a different level…he trusts you won’t run at the first sign of challenges and he knows you’re mature enough to handle things as they arise (good and bad). Be accountable and deliver…always! Be FLEXIBLE!!! Scheduling around work, family, etc can be challenging at times, but do your best to stick to the days/times you agreed upon or find a sitter/ rearrange plans when you have to make changes. Your time and attention are very important to building his trust in the arrangement.

    Michael – and I always thought you were the eternal optimist!

  174. SD TWICE says:

    Well, the question is about actual practical results vs expectations and wishes… where does a person expect to net out ultimately with whatever strategy they use?

  175. Shay says:

    ok sooo… I have a dinner date for Sat with a pot from out of town who is here on a business trip anyway. He seems nice but not sure about the chemistry. Seems like one of those people I just have to meet to really know if I like him or not, some people’s personalities are conveyed easily through a medium like the internet and others not so much. We had a discussion about sugar which HE initiated. He asked me how he could best help me (and yes he really said it like that, wow) and I used Bela’s line of asking what worked for him in the past. He said that he has preferred the allowance route, didn’t want to give an amount but was pressuring me for one. So I said 3-5k, NYC SB’s sweet spot, and he said that was too high.

    SO I guess I will meet him anyway just to have my first sugar date and see what it’s like.

  176. Bela says:

    SD TWICE – hmmmm what can are you trying to open now?

  177. SD TWICE says:

    Bi, what makes you a solid 3-5K? When the guys you get with are jerks and disappear anyway, and you spend far more time without than with, what makes you a solid 3-5k?

    It sounds to me like YOU would be much happier with a steady guy for many months or years even with something under 3?

  178. Bela says:

    amen nyc sb

  179. NYC SB says:

    Ny gent – I don’t think anyone attacked your bromance :) we all know that he deserves the “gent” in his handle

  180. Third World SB says:


    I’ve required potential sugar daddies to meet me in my town for a first meeting, every time. It’s possible that I lost some pots because of that requirement, but I’m not aware of a situation where that actually happened. My reason is a little different (I do not have a car), but I am pretty sure that everyone who was actually serious about meeting me was quite happy to drive to my town to meet me. For reference, most of the SD’s I’ve met this way have driven 1-3 hours out of their way (round trip) to meet me, and none of them have complained about it or seemed to think it was an unreasonable request.

    Another potential solution- is there a train or anything to this halfway point? Taking the train, for me, is slightly less exhausting than driving, and definitely faster. You might consider asking the pot SD to fund a train ticket for you if he doesn’t want to drive to your town.

    I also share your attitude, that once I am in an arrangement with someone, I am happy to take a train to their hometown to see them (since I don’t have a car anyway, that is really my only option). But I have a pretty hard rule about not going that far out of my way for a first meeting that might potentially be a flop. Just cause, you know, that’s what I’m comfortable with.

  181. Gemi says:

    ( I feel as if I should put a disclaimer in here… I mean I don’t think I can drive a 1hour+ each way trip to meet a pot SD for the first time, especially during the week after work, not that I wouldn’t do that once I already HAD a SD. )

    I just wonder if a genuine SD would appreciate my honest and upfront-ness about it… or am I going to lose out on a few pot SDs who will be like” oh screw it, not worth it”.

    I’m conflicted.

  182. Gemi says:

    Hello bloggy world!


    went on a first-date with a pot last night. went wonderfully.

    excpet I was so tired from after a full day at work that I could barely keep my eyes open on the drive (1hour+) and then driving home (1hour+). So now I’m thinking, I really can’t do this again. Not when I have to drive an hour to work the next morning and need to function at my job. So what is a SB to do? I have a few tentative plans with a few pot SD who are a 1hour+ drive away. Do I tell them now that I really need to meet closer to where I work and not “half-way” between us? idk. I don’t like being on the edge of super exhausted during the whole date and worrying about driving home ok, you know? A) its not fair to the pot SD and B) its not fair to me.

    Suggestions? Ideas? Comments?

  183. Lily says:

    Of course life is a journey!

    I was speaking only generally.

    MOST women find increased pleasure within their own skins after thru hit their mid-thirties sexual peak.

    MOST women will gain empathy with a few failures as well as successes in love & life in general.

    MOST women learn to begin to appreciate each moment/day more & have more sensitivity to the brevity of life after they’ve turned 30 or 40, relative to their perspective at 20, and after the’ve brought children into the world (which, also, gets a woman out of any “I’m the center of the universe” immaturity).

    It’s highly individual & your results may vary! Of course!

    These are only generalizations and a little food for thought for the gentlemen who seek only the 25 & under girlie.

  184. Third World SB says:

    I am curious whether the next SA party will be as much of a flop as the last few seem to have been. They say they have incorporated suggestions given by some of the bloggers, but they are using the same event planner, it seems, and in the world of event-planning, that is usually a huge mistake.

    I can’t go, for obvious reasons. Any one else planning to attend?

  185. Shay says:

    Lily, age is no guarantee for wit or empathy or knowledge, any more than youth is some guarantee of beauty. If it’s acceptable to become accustomed to the above average beauty of an exceptional older woman with perfect wit, it follows that there may be younger women with perfect beauty and above average wit, empathy, etc.

    Figuring yourself out for some people is not a horrid phase that ends at 25 or 30. For some life is an ongoing journey of introspection and new paths. For others it was a phase, then it comes again at say 40 or 50 – the midlife crisis. Either type will find much in common with those girls referred to as the fountain of youth. Age is as much about spirit as it is about physical appearance or crude experience level.

  186. PA-SB says:

    All I want is a date…just one! :(

    Okay maybe a new Macbook. Or another guitar. Or one of those flushing litter boxes.

  187. FL-SD says:

    Yep, possible…. Tough to fake in detail…

    How about you ? Memorable experiences ? What makes it memorable ?

  188. Bela says:

    you guys are wearing me out, ‘night!

  189. @FL-SD – or they could be very very good at playing you …

  190. FL-SD says:

    @Elegant. my 2 cents:
    The things that grab my attention, that mean”she’s really into me” are the little things: eg Does she know what I drink and when? it’s about her knowing the subtle nuances… The fireworks come from the realization that I was important enough to listen to and remember…

    Another blogger said it awhile back(Midwest, I think). it is very erotic to tune in to your lovers heartbeat.. to listen to their breathing… to really hear their non-verbal communication…

    It means a lot when someone remembers the little things and incorporates them in a future moment: a fantasy… a remembrance.. a special place, or fragrance, or lingerie…
    What means the most is when someone takes the time to listen, remember and incorporate the knowledge of me/us into a special moment.

  191. Jessie says:

    @ BiBaby

    Thanks. I’ll do a search, see what’s available and make changes to my profile as necessary.

    And, yeah, I’m not shy about making the first contact :).

  192. BiBaby says:


    Definitely put that you are willing (and love) to travel but be aware that there’s a whole HOST of obstacles and issues unique to traveling SB’s. I considered traveling at first but since I’m near a pretty good market (DC) I just fish nearby since it’s driving distance.

    Given you’re in Nebraska, yeah, I’d probably want to consider looking around Chicago and Minneapolis/St Paul at least to start, pick the 3 closest big cities to you geographically and search your pot SD’s that most recently logged on in those 3 areas. If their profile says “must be local” or the allowance range is under 1k, disregard (under 1k they probably won’t be shelling out the $250 roundtrip to fly you to them each time). Since you’re in a crummy location I would probably step up your initiative and contact THEM rather than sit and wait for something that might never happen.

    Contacting them yourself can work….the last gentleman I had a (albeit brief) arrangement with I initiated the contact and he admitted he never sends out any emails because due to his listed allowance he never has to (probably true…although he should also have put that you’ll never last more than a month or two, but that’s a story for another time…). Good luck!

  193. FL-SD says:

    @Lily. You’ve hit the nail on the head Miss Lily!
    Life experience, and a woman who knows herself are incredibly attractive. It’s not all taught bodies and flawless skin… that part is the easy part. No, give me the woman who has won and lost loves, who has a sense of the moment and how precious each moment is… A woman who appreciates the cerebral part of sensuality and indulges her lover in slow subtle seduction…
    Youth has it’s place… but the subtle art of seduction creates memories that last a lifetime… and is rarely created without the benefit of experience and appreciation for the moment..,

  194. Jessie says:

    Hey guys, I’ve been reading the day’s “unfolding drama” with bated breath, but I wondered if you’d mind if I throw out a challenge to you. Yep, I’m being selfish…it’s all about me, me, me :).

    I joined a few days ago. I’m new to sb dating, and I’ve discovered that there’s not a lot of active sd in my state (NE). I’ve already gotten the token, “can we meet for $500? As well as “what do you think about rimming, swallowing and facials?” I must say although I hadn’t discovered the blog before I got those letters, and read that this is sometimes common-place I did exactly as (can’t remember who, and I’m too lazy to scroll up, can I just say it was Lily) :), said ‘move on.’

    My question is, should I change my profile to read “willing to consider long-distance” or should I just wait awhile and see what happens?

    The challenge then becomes…is anyone willing to read my profile and see if it needs tweaking?

    Thanks bunches :)

  195. NYGent says:

    NC Gent: I understood what you meant, it was a perfectly apt and reasonable comment. Sorry it got distorted and you got attacked for it. Anybody on this blog and especially those who’ve met you, more than once, knows you are a gentleman and well-intentioned, authentic SD. And I’m disappointed that some of your SB blogger friends, including those who’ve been repeated recipients of your generosity, stayed silent and failed to say a word in your defense against a characteristically snippy and snarky remark.

  196. ContinentalTravel says:

    OK, on the restaurant price tab questions, I have to admit that that’s not a lot of money. I guess I’m just used to dining at casual places with other men, as men I know seemed to find even 3 star restaurants “too slow”. Whatever that means.

    $200-400 is definitely not all that rare, as it’s really just upper middle class range. But I can’t seem to recall many dining experiences at such restaurants.

    I have to admit, a $300 dinner seem to be a natural choice for a sugar date to get to know each other. Quiet, and drawn out.

  197. Lily says:

    Continental – plenty of non-handsome men without money score great women. Why not work on that humor of yours that you say isn’t winning you any points with the fairer sex? Why not consider personal development an worthwhile project and continue to spoil women as well? They’re not mutually exclusive. I’ve gone out with charming, interesting, fun billionaires so I know the combo can be accomplished.
    Think about how much *better* the sex will be if you mold yourself on the inside to be the kinda guy that your SB is pouncing on not out of obligation as part of the agreement, but because your personality is something she feels genuine chemistry with. Women aren’t that visual. The inside counts, and is *everything* when it comes to the *kind* of sex you’re getting.

  198. Lily says:

    Many gentlemen see beauty in women past their twenties, that age well. Apparently some do not.

    And since being plump and young and ripe is a fleeting thing, the price to pay for chasing that is to constantly trade in for a newer model.

    Some men find the endless swapping to lose it’s thrill, at a certain point, and start to see sexiness and charm in other things than naïveté and a brow with nary a fine line to crease it. Wit, empathy, knowledge, and arriving at one’s sexual peak can all be considered well worth it to a man, who learns to savor the beauty who has aged elegantly into her thirties and forties and who is so much more ‘herself’ than when she was a schoolgirl or fresh-out-of-college gal just trying to figure herself out (& her place in the world). If she has a sharp mind, clever tongue, and sensual confidence that turns you on, you can relax into a relationship free from the irritating ticking sound of the timepiece which is always counting down in the background, inching ever closer to the girl’s 30th birthday.

    If youth is your sole goal, I think you’re aiming too low.

  199. ContinentalTravel says:

    The men who seem as if maybe they just can’t handle women of the maturity and experience level of their own generation, where money can’t get them a ‘free pass’ out of actually participating in a meaningful, reciprocal relationship based on their inner qualities and not any material perks, are the ones I wonder about….

    How about just not genetically gifted enough to get laid when they’re young, and not willing to settle for the lack of youth of women their own age? Do you think Prince Charles had a “meaningful, reciprocal relationship based on their inner qualities”? I’m not afraid to say that, since my 30’s, I have used the mighty bucks to make up for my lack of humor and handsomeness. Rather than a clutch, I would consider money to be a permanent prosthetic leg I will use as long as I have access to.

  200. Lily says:

    Dandy wine : amen! And it’s never felt like a stuffy, ‘old person thing’ to be taken out to a high end restaurant. It’s typical non-sugar dating norms for desirable single women who don’t happen to date blue collar men. A (typically married!) “sugar daddy” should perhaps be offering experiences that exceed what the boys our age are offering, no….?

  201. BiBaby says:

    $250 is a normal dinner in Washington DC too, albeit a 3 or 4 star restaurant, but certainly not Olive Garden either. I recently ate at the Ritz Carlton in Georgetown and it ran $85 for the bottle of white wine, $35 for steak entre, $15 for gazpaucho (sp?), another $10 for salad each and shared dessert runs about $18. This plus tip was a bit over $200 but again, this is fairly normal for any decent restaurant in the Dupont Circle/Georgetown area.

  202. Dandelion Wine says:

    $250 dinner is uncommon outside of NYC? What about any other big city?
    IMO that’s a price range of a regular steak house with no frills: 2 steaks @$40 a piece, shared appetizer @ $15, bottle of wine @ $90, shared dessert @ $15, 20%tip @ $40 =$240, and that’s without anything exotic

  203. BiBaby says:

    Grrrr….some of these posts make me so f’ing mad…

    to wit: I’m not going to support a sb. She needs to find a job and be responsible for her life.

    Yeah, well in my case I just found out my unemployment will NOT be extended by Congress and I’m knee deep in school. I can’t find s–t that pays over $8 an hour and I’m in graduate school. Once you’ve been out of work more than a few weeks, employers are NOT interested in looking at you for an interview. I’ve put in over 300 job applications and gotten only 10 in-person interviews, 2 of which made it to the final round. The other candidate was cheaper in both cases, and not at my choice, but they had made less than I did and the company ASSUMED they would not make me happy with an offer.

    I really take offense at the idea that you are somehow defective if you are not working full time. It is through no fault of my own. I’m bettering myself with an education and doing what I can to go where the work is. Problem is I was laid off with 60 others in my field in a town that cannot support all of us with new positions and my husband cannot quit where he is at or transfer elsewhere as there is only one location. he does not even have a college degree so I will not make him lose his livelihood for me to find work, I’ll just figure it out.

    I don’t know WHO does a $200-$400 per meet allowance as an SB but even as a developing SB myself, I’ve never settled for that. Dinner costs that, if it didn’t, I never let it progress to a “meet” as clearly our expectations differed. My allowance range is solidly 3-5k and even broken down per meet I’ve never met for less than a 4 figure number. And I’ve never delivered less than what that number deserves, to the best of my ability.

    As to the VS model question, I’m not a VS model but I am a former swimsuit model and I think most of us fall in a reasonable range along with other very attractive women (3-5k, some can command perhaps 7k) but I agree with the “sweet spot” comment on allowances, too little and you may be communicating a lack of confidence/value in how you can enhance your SD’s life, too much and you come off as a high maintenance princess. Ultimately I think it comes down to what YOUR SD expects to get for the money and for many of them, what you plan to do with it.

    Even with the ones that wound up winding down/p4p type situations, I was told several times they felt way better about giving me the money to cover school, my truck payment and other incidentals way more than buying an $800 pair of Louboutins. It’s not necessarily being cheap but rather some gentlemen just want to know that the money they worked hard for is making at least *some* difference in an SB’s life rather than just another item in the closet. Your mileage may vary however…

    Where’s my photo?? You know my email address.. 😉

  204. Lily says:

    You’re welcome.

    Unfortnately, many of us come to the sugarbowl in a position of being under uncomfortable financial realities, and it’s hard to continuously meet men who are offering a tight-fisted type of “mutually” (ha!) beneficial, stingy p4p deal and say, “no thank you” over and over again, without hope waning that there are any real SDs out there. Frustration & fatigue can arise, and true financial need, and girls can lose hope about there even existing anything else, and may end up agreeing to such a deal with the first ‘SD’ who doesn’t seem intolerable. It’s a pity that over 90% of men actively making offers on SA really oughtta take their mentality to craigslist and the weeding out period can take months and months even for extremely desirable SBs.

    Encouraging women on this blog not to let themselves be used, and to demand to be treated with higher regard than that, is necessary, and appropriate, as women are conditioned in our culture to be the accommodating, obliging, non-demanding feminine companion, and we can easily be walked all over when dealing with pushy men of means and who are accustomed to getting what they want. Savvy, confident ladies with their self-esteems in good repair are typical of the regulars on this blog, but not, I fear, of the pool of SBs here in general, and as a result, men get spoiled by a huge pool of attractive women who can be walked all over. At least here they can get moral support to insist on being treated better.

    Men are at an advantage in the online sugarbowl and can be spoiled and corrupted if they come across a string of pushovers, and even not realize themselves that their regard for and treatment of the women they date has slipped below what qualifies for how a gentleman should operate with a lady.

    I’ll say it again and again: Don’t be a pushover SB. Even if it means you screen 100 or more men and wait for months to find the one that really takes pride in how he treats people in general, and places a special important on chivalry towards women.

  205. ContinentalTravel says:


    I assume you’re in London, and your SB friends are mostly from NYC, right? Dinner bills of 250-400 for 2 are not very common in US, outside of NYC, not because people can’t afford it (tax rates are much lower here), but because it’s often consider “too much hassle”. Traditional fine dining also seemed to a stigma of being “old” associated with it. In a 24/7 economy obsessed with youth, fancy dinners just don’t seem all that popular.

    250-400 USD per sugar meet does seem low, but devil is in the details, right?

  206. Dandelion Wine says:

    Shay, honey, I can afford to pay the dentist because I have education and a good job that allows me to earn on par with a large percentage of aspiring SDs.
    Moreover, I do not waste money. Convenience has a clearly defined monetary value for me, and the value of the convenience far outweighs the extra that my dentist charges.

  207. Shay says:

    lily – ty for your comments about the true sb.

    • SD Guru says:

      An afternoon of tasting the private reserve collections, followed by mud bath, body wrap, and massage, then dinner at a highly acclaimed restaurant, and finally bedroom fireworks… now that’s a memorable experience!!

      Did I miss anything on the blog today? :mrgreen:

      As I have said in the blog before, I don’t pass judgment on how people handle their sugar relationships. We all have different approaches and we do what works for us, what we’re comfortable with, and what’s within our risk tolerance level. Other than outright lies and deception, there is no right way or wrong way, or better way, just different ways.

      Now please excuse me while I get back to enjoying the sugar life…

  208. Lily says:

    Men healing from past relationships and using an arrangement to help brighten their lives while they are not ready for a traditional relationship makes a lot of sense. We all need a crutch while we heal, and that’s what friends are for.

    The men who seem as if maybe they just can’t handle women of the maturity and experience level of their own generation, where money can’t get them a ‘free pass’ out of actually participating in a meaningful, reciprocal relationship based on their inner qualities and not any material perks, are the ones I wonder about….

  209. ARCTIC SD says:

    To expand further the joy the SB has brought to my existence, there is this daily morning text greeting and yes the texting goes both ways 2-3 times a day but in short spurts of a few minutes long. A way of telling each other how the day was going but yet not intrusive enough to feel a “noose” around my neck.

    We meet for lunch just for the sake of lunch (no sex) to chit chat once a week and then meet up for some close-up contact once week as well but with a good 2-3 days interval apart between lunch and meeting. She always overnight at my house during the meetings where we either make dinner together or order in.

    All in, it has served my needs well and I try to reciprocate.

    Now that is what I have envisioned about the sugar world when I first sign up 6 months ago.

  210. ARCTIC SD says:

    Lily – I will volunteer to start first as a single SD:

    After having gone thro a crappy marriage which shattered my glowing haloed image of that institution, I chose the sugar life to seek a SB that can help me have a regular close companionship contact without all the full time dramas. There is no question that the quest to find a good SB that can click with me was no easy task (remember the SB who wanted to sue?) so it has been lots of bumps along the way.

    The latest SB (1 month and half now) is a young full time college student who seem to fit the role well and I see no reason why I should not return my gratitude with an allowance and spoiling. During that 6 weeks, she has never treated me like a walking ATM so I am damn lucky to hook up with this lovely SB.

    The previous SBs that treated me as one were promptly “next” so I see no reason why any SD should put up with that.

    The bottom line is that a SD has much more control over the whole sugar life than he think otherwise. I must admit it never took me more than a few weeks to screen, meet and narrow down the selection of pots when I start afresh.

  211. Bela says:

    I couldn’t help but add to my list of things to “wow” him from nyc sb :)

  212. Lily says:

    Whenever I’ve been at my sugary finest, I’ve been present, available, attentive, and in fabulous spirits simply because he’s around. It’s been totally authentic, and whatever natural bubbliness and cheerfulness (that used to get me teased in school, like, “what on earth is she always so HAPPY about?!” ) that exists organically within me just bubbles over onto HIM as a recipient of my energy. Because he’s smart, attractive, very good-hearted, chivalrous with a capital C, and totally enchanted by ME, and the whole thing is a virtuous cycle which feeds off of itself upwards and upwards into ever-higher echelons.

    I haven’t found many men like that, to be sure. But the couple that I have, have been lifelong friends and somehow it felt like that even in the very beginning, like I had stumbled upon a lifelong friend. There was never a X amount for Y meets sort of mentality, and actually more like zero allowance discussion at all, just me being wowed with what is done without asking, and being darned sure that I am always saying yes when he has time to meet, out of sheer and genuine enthusiasm to be sure to be his muse, his excitement, the icing on his cake. And always wishing he had time to meet more often, but having to be satiisfied with his limited availability because thems are the conditions. :)

    Did that help at all, Shay?

  213. NYC SB says:

    elegant – we discussed this topic during the valentine’s day post… take a look at the archives… should have more than just my ideas :)

  214. NYC SB says:

    certain questions re-appear over and over again… i wouldnt mind sharing how an SD can get the most sex out of me…

    lily – women who agree to that are the desperate ones…

    elegant – good question… my advice would be: know your sd and what he likes … then deliver… i have done the baking of brownies in a cute vs baker outfit, the unsolicited full body massage, the raunchy email midday describing a certain fantasy or what we would do next time i see him, the bday lap dance, and my personal favorite waiting for him in nothing but louboutins and pearls … hope this helps

  215. Lily says:

    To echo Midwest’s point from a couple of days ago about SDs who only desire SBs who are totally financially independent and in good shape economically:

    do you realize AT ALL how much that would shrink your pool of ladies to choose from?

    Poll to all SDs who dare to answer: Why are you in the sugar bowl? I think the ladies tend to be very transparent here about what they hope to accomplish in terms of enhancing or changing their life with an SDs companionship and support, but it’s often unclear to me why certain men on here, many of them single, aren’t seeking more meaningful non-sugar relationships with women closer to their own age and background? Especially when they obviously have such mixed feelings about providing an allowance, and even the thought of a woman unabashedly seeking an allowance (above the amount they have determined in their mind is their max #) would leave them with their skin crawling and posting such scathing comments? No one’s forcing them to date via a site which is entirely designed towards men providing financial benefit towards women who (for WHATEVER reason) are interested in those financial benefits.

  216. Shay says:

    lily – could you talk some more about what a “true sb” is from your perspective? ty <3

  217. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    Ok “experienced” SD’s and SB’s….

    SD’s how does your SB really “WOW” you??? Or how would she?

    SB’s ideas on how you “WOW” your new or potential SD’s???

    I need some ideas… :)
    Pretty please?!

  218. Dandelion Wine says:

    ToughLove, just because you are paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you 😉
    I was commenting on this posting: “ToughLove says:
    December 1, 2010 at 9:27 am
    So, if I understand you correctly, comments from a woman about how to get the most from an SD are WELCOME….BUT, comments from a male perspective are OFFENSIVE? Very interesting… No further comment needed.”

  219. Lily says:

    NC Gent – no it’s not any food for thought at all. I saw no posts from women on here trying to figure out how to maximize the most cash out of a gentleman. I read the allowance discussion, yes, but not about hustling anyone or even trying to.

  220. Lily says:

    Genuine SDs want to be a constant presence in your life which includes uninterrupted financial support which can be counted on, as well as thoughtful gestures of friendship and caring (notes and such via email/text/phone, at his convenience) in the interim between live meetings.

    Bottom line is that this site is for ‘create your own’ style arrangements. Each couple’s needs, and subsequent fabulous solution they discover for meeting one another’s needs successfully, will be different. Every woman’s goals on this site are OK. Anything consenting adults agree among themselves do is OK. A disgusting sense of entitlement because a lady has a large allowance as what it will take to make her happy in an arrangement? No way. She’s aware that it limits her pool of opportunity, but chooses to do so, and it’s her right. Just as it’s a SD’s right to choose to offer whatever he desires to offer and not budge. There’s a big, big world out there and everyone can find someone to fulfill their needs and wants. Why argue about whether guys who pay large allowances are dumb or women who dream of them are unrealistic or entitled? That’s a waste of energy indeed. Let people seek what they wanna seek and wish them the best, as long as you don’t have reason to believe they are operating with malice or harming anyone.

    FL -SD is aaaaamazing! Love his attitude.

    250-450 in USD per sugar date? Seriously? That was the dinner bill he was referring to, correct? I know, I know, live and let live and whatever makes one another happy, but…

    This is supposed to be _the_ *Elite* SUGAR DADDY Dating site, right? I just wish there were different sites for different styles of dating. That level sounds like what a guy posting on craigslist would offer, not an “elite sugar daddy.”

    But what bothers me more is that there are women on this site who would agree to it. If they either re-invented themselves as true SBs, or (more realistically) just removed themselves from this site altogether, and went to an escorting site, then this could actually be the one place that isn’t polluted with johns and pros, and the men on SA would quickly learn that those offers aren’t sympatico with the concept of ‘elite’ or ‘sugar,’ and after getting the cold shoulder enough times, would scurry off to wherever it is that the escorts are putting up profiles.

  221. NC Gent says:

    I will chime in on this… I know SG2 and consider him a friend, and I know that his allowance is on par with other REAL SDs that I know in the South. I share his viewpoint on the allowance discussion, but I don’t feel quite as strongly. I recognize this is a place to vent, share ideas, and even make friends, so nothing that is posted here bothers me that much. Having said that, I can only imagine how the SBs here might feel if a large number of SDs came in here and discussed (ad nauseum) how to maximize the amount of sex they could get from their SBs. Perhaps a perspective that should be considered before judging SG2’s comments? I bet after a few times of hearing that discussion, you wouldn’t want to hear it again…. food for thought :)

  222. NYC SB says:

    SG2 – I have a full time job making 6 figures… So an SD is not needed to support or boost my lifestyle. However, that does not make me unworthy of being spoiled by a generous man. Having said that, I want an SD who will enhance my life. An allowance of less than 4.5k will not accomplish that. None of my sds have ever felt like a walking atm. I am grateful for all of their support, gifts, trips, dinners and they know it. As a matter of fact my last sd saw me once every two months and I offered to not take an allowance for the months I didn’t see him. His reply “I am not paying for sex so there is no need for you to refund me. You accommodate my schedule always and you deserve my financial support when I cannot see you.”

  223. Lyrenn says:

    I ask for an allowence that reflect the amount of impact spending time with him will affect my way of life.

    I have a crappy job that barley pays bills, and some months doesn’t. I am trying to put some money away so I can take the hit to my income going to school will insure. I have a small son who is my utter world. If a gentleman only wants to see me 2x a month, well that will not affect my life very much. Now on the other hand is a gentleman wants to see me 2x a week, well that will affect my life greatly. I will have to works less, which means less money for bills which means I will not be able to stash a few dollars away for my school fund. So gentleman 1 will be asked for a lesser allowance, while gentleman 2 will be asked for more.

  224. Midwest SB says:

    Bela and Carebear – Thanks for the insight! I’m loving the workshops at our new Apple store…they’re awesome!

    Off to meet a colleague and network a bit.

    FLSD – You always restore my faith in the meaning of true gentlemen. Thank you!

    TL – I apologize for what seems to have spurred an identity crisis…even if you guys are starting to morph 😛

  225. Shay says:

    tough- no one is posting as you, she got you confused with southern.

  226. ToughLove says:

    First Midwest and now Dandelion Wine. I feel like I’m walking into the MIDDLE of my own conversation because for some reason they keep using my name, yet I have NO idea as to WHY. I can only hope the blog administrators address this soon…

  227. ToughLove says:

    What the HELL are you talking about? Is someone else posting as me, because I have no idea what you you’re referring to. And if they are, why can I NOT see these posts? WTF?

  228. FL-SD says:

    Uhhh – Low blow my friend. The women on this site are more than capable of reinventing their lives and lifestyles without your (or our) help.
    There is an element of disrespect in that comment that offends me.
    Sugar may help, sugar may expedite the process, but the women of this site certainly have the ability.
    That is patently disrespectful to the amazing women of this blog.

  229. Third World SB says:


    Naive assumption. I ditched the 9-5 long before I’d ever even heard of the concept of a SD. It might surprise you to know that there are a lot of people that survive and are perfectly happy, who have neither a paying job nor a SD.

    I date this way because I enjoy it and it makes sense for me, not because it is the only possible way for me to live the life that I want to live.

    No reason for us to argue about this, though. If I met you through SA, I would politely decline your offer, and you would politely decline mine. We would move on. You’re looking to provide something different than what I am looking for, and that’s okay. But in reverse, I am looking for a SD who is happy to provide more than what you are interested in providing, and that needs to be okay too. I am not a product and I am not for sale, and no one is a fool for agreeing to meet my requests.

  230. Shay says:

    dandelion – and you can afford to pay the dentist that because you treat your SD like an atm. way to get value for his money you lazy sugarbaby. 😛 just kidddddddding I couldn’t help myself

  231. Dandelion Wine says:

    Tough Love, I don’t think any of the SBs ever said “I wouldn’t settle for anything less than 10k and neither should you”, so that is not a fair comparison. Why is it any of SG2’s business what other people do with their money? Most importantly, why does he assume that they spend more than he does because they are “desperate”?
    My dentist charges about 40-60% above the “customary fee” and I pay her what the insurance doesn’t cover not because I’m dumb an dint know what the customary fee is, but because her location is convenient for me and she doesn’t get on my nerves.

  232. SouthernGent2 says:

    Third World – it might be up to you to make those choices, but without one of us, you don’t have the ability to make that choice.

  233. Third World SB says:

    True, but if I wanted to enforce time limits and/or only ask for a small amount of money as a “lil bonus” to my income, I’d probably just be escorting. After all, that is easier.

    I don’t want my lifestyle to be “elevated,” I want it to be DIFFERENT. I choose a life free of a 9-5 over a life that involves a 9-5, an excellent stock portfolio, and a closet full of designer shoes. Nothing against SB’s who choose to have those things, but whether our allowances “support” us, or elevate our lifestyles, is up to us. There are plenty of worthwhile things to do with your life that don’t involve a paycheck.

  234. Shay says:

    ^^^ lol you guys are so funny.

  235. Bela says:

    Honestly, some only need that bonus to do the trick, so it’s probably a non-issue

  236. Third World SB says:

    The next time someone asks me for a blowjob I’m only going to provide one for three minutes and then tell them that I’m not going to “support” them in terms of sex, just “provide a little bonus”…

  237. Bela says:

    Midwest, I also use wifi. I live in the country (practically third world :p) where many areas do not even have 3G available yet.

  238. Shay says:

    Does anyone else think it’s weird that sooooooo many guys list “intelligence” and so on as being more important than a girl’s looks, but then you get guys with very specific requests (X size boobs, X height, X weight, X hair colour) but no one ever says, you must have an IQ about Y or education level above Y or be able to pass Y standardized test that I wrote from the lonely enclave of my upscale penthouse?

    I’m not saying it’s the same guys (it’s not), and I’m not saying the second type are lying (I don’t see why they would bother), I just think it’s weird that men can be so precise and fetishistic about someone’s appearance but not about intelligence even when they indicate that the intelligence is the most important thing to them.

  239. Bela says:

    NYC SB – Exactly! When I turned 25, I came to a very clear realization that I will NEVER have that body type. Then, after an amazing first trip to Australia, I learned that it’s a good thing. Now I love my curves. Sure, I’d like for them to be more firm, but I won’t let that stop me from enjoying my body.

    This is why I could never be a lawyer. I can understand both sides of this discussion.

    As stated by both SB’s and SD’s, the issue of allowance is very personal and varies case by case. I establish my target allowance range the same as Midwest (student loans, financial goals, cost of living, etc.) I have no children, a great full time job, low cost of living, moderate debt but great credit and a stable lifestyle. Having said that, for me personally, I would feel highly out of line to request an allowance anywhere near 10K. I know I’m probably going to be labeled as a traitor, but I agree with Southern. Sugar agreed upon by me and my SD is not to put me in the position where I don’t have to work. It’s to enhance the life that I’ve built for myself. No judgment. Just me.

    Entitlement is supposed to be a right to benefits that is granted by a law or contract. If an agreement between me and my SD is for companionship with an allowance of 2,500 monthly, I would feel entitled to that solely because of the mutual agreement.

    SD’s who feel that an SB should receive more or less have the right to do so, but negativity towards those who disagree is a waste of energy.

  240. Carebear says:

    Midwest, I use wifi bc I’m rarely ever somewhere that doesn’t have it. Using it right now! =)

  241. SouthernGent2 says:

    Carebear – the word is “support” is the key word in your comments above. I’m not going to support a sb. She needs to find a job and be responsible for her life. That being said, I am willing to provide a bonus to her lifestyle. That to me is what this should be all about.

  242. Shay says:

    @ midwest – aw ty

    @ southern – I don’t think it’s fair to call someone who’d pay well over your budget for an sb “dumb and desperate.” Girls are not worth “x.” There’s girls giving what an SB offers for free and some of them are prettier and funnier and smarter. Does that make someone who pays for it a chump? NO. Some of the girls getting paid a high amount didn’t even ask for it and some of them would stick around if the guy went broke (and fewer of them know it). Sometimes really rich guys nevertheless don’t prioritize money or maybe they prioritize it so much that they can’t even value someone unless they paid for them. The situations run so diverse and strange I really think it’s mistake to sweep them all in one class.

    @ continental – I imagine the $ required to keep a VS lookalike is closely tied to her awareness of what she looks like and the closest ties she has in the beauty or sex industries. You wouldn’t find one for cheap on this site because they all know what they are. Value wise you are better off making one from scratch in some small town.

  243. Midwest SB says:

    Awwwww Carebear -Chicago can be much worse, but agreed! Have a cocktail :-)

    Where are you off to?

  244. Carebear says:

    Whoever hates NYC airports as much as me raise your hand

  245. Midwest SB says:

    Question for our iPad owners…do you prefer the WIFI or 3G connections? Do you ever go over the 2GB limitation that comes with the 3G? I had that issue at home, mainly because of streaming. Any suggestions?

    We got snow today…It’s beginning to feel a lot like Christmas!

  246. SD TWICE says:

    The mafia which muscles what is said on the blog has lost some of its grip. Will its access to our email and ip addresses help it regain control?

    …Read on as the exciting story unfolds…

  247. SanDiego sb says:

    The only reason i said what i said, is because it seems lately alot of the men in cali, want rail thin girls, and they call it “the oc look” its basically tits on a stick, size 0 with fake boobs. I even read on one mans page “if you are over a size 4 dress size do not contact me”

    I actually thought the kate moss days were over.

  248. ToughLove says:

    It’s a simple scroll and the comments you mentioned weren’t mine. So I stand behind my original statement…no further comment needed.

  249. Midwest SB says:

    TL – I respect your desire to address your comments specifically. I don’t have the time or inclination to go through every post and quote each of you separately. However, I firmly stand behind my comments. If you would like to discuss offline, I will be happy to have someone share my e-mail with you. Honestly, I’m seldom about drama, but felt like an important piece of sugar was being completely overlooked.

    Bottom line: We will get out of sugar what we put into it.

  250. ToughLove says:

    I cannot and will not speak for others. Feel free to quote me if there is something that warrants such a discussion. I’m all ears…but I tend to work in specifics. Themes and generalities involving several different posters, not so much…

  251. Midwest SB says:

    Indeed TL. There is a theme.

  252. ToughLove says:


    Perhaps you are confusing the posts. I never made those statements about feeling like a walking ATM or providing $150 for an evening. I also never stated I was offended. I notice behaviors, yet rarely take offense. Are we all starting to sound alike to you?

  253. Midwest SB says:

    Why is SD Twice posting a response to SD Twice?

  254. Midwest SB says:

    TL- I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be offended…nobody wants to feel like a walking ATM. I do find it ironic that someone on a sugar site, who is generous enough to provide $150 (less than the bottle of wine at my last dinner) for an evening with a woman who may or may not normally date a man of said caliber and complain if he doesn’t get some intimacy is treating a so-called sugar baby like a pro. Perhaps I’m living in a fairy tale world, but my SDs have NEVER, EVER, EVER been so brash as to think that behavior was gentlemanly or acceptable.

    This is less about money and more about your views towards women in general.

  255. carebear says:

    shay-my comments weren’t directed at you, just stating my opinion as everyone else has done. =)

    southerngent- i kind of have to agree with dw, while i understand that some may ask for preposterous amounts in your mind, i would hope that most sb’s have reasoning, as i was trying to suggest in my ‘open ended’ comment. if youre completely against the idea of supporting a sb, then perhaps the relationship of choice isn’t in line with your preferences.

    clearly we all have different views on the subject of allowance. perhaps we should all stick to our own and wish each other luck with the search. if others chose to live in lalaland, let them stay there and out of the real sweet sugar bowl. =)

    meanwhile, i’m tired of sitting in the airport. =( i want to see my sugar friends NOW grrrrrrr

    HA they just called for me!

  256. ToughLove says:

    So, if I understand you correctly, comments from a woman about how to get the most from an SD are WELCOME….BUT, comments from a male perspective are OFFENSIVE? Very interesting… No further comment needed.

  257. Midwest SB says:

    ESB!!!! I will certainly send you an e-mail shortly!

    SG2, Toughlove, SD Twice – Help me clarify – is this a dating site or a sugar site? I’ve never been this blunt and do not intend to run you guys off, but your attitudes TREAT women as if they are here for your disposal. I’m officially offended.

    DW – Well said! I heart you!

    Guru & Stephan – sorry for the frankness, but I think it’s gone to far. Bar me or delete the comment if you feel it is too volatile.

    Shay – You are an intelligent and strong woman. In the end you do what works for you. I can say that these “guidelines” or advice come from seeing women take different approaches with awfull consequences. Be very careful.

  258. SouthernGent2 says:

    Maybe I am just lucky enough to find girls that like me and are willing to accept what I am willing to offer them. Sure makes it easier than dealing with someone that wants more, or thinks she is worth something. Pardon my rant today, but the topic just hit the wrong note with me today.

  259. ContinentalTravel says:

    Depending on cost of living, local competition, age gap, and the SB’s looks, I wouldn’t consider a guy shelling out 5-15k/month for an SB to be dumb and desperate. It’s vastly cheaper than a trophy wife, based on my personal experience. What you’re paying is pro-rated divorce and child support settlement. Many of my close friends would have been much better off had they entered the sugar bowl rather than trying to start a second family, or a late family.

    On the topics of VS models:
    Anyone have any remote idea of what kind of allowance is needed to keep a VS model caliber SB? Rumors, gossips, and wild guesses are welcome. It would be good for tabloid headlines.

    I guess SD’s who can afford 10k+/month allowance probably can afford a real life matchmaker. Hence not too many genuine guys of that level on this site.

  260. ToughLove says:



  261. Dandelion Wine says:

    Southern, why get a SB at all?
    You could always develop a personality, become funny, interesting, caring and have meaningful, fulfilling relationships with women your own age. Moreover, since it would be a real relationship, you’d get to see your girlfriend at least twice a week

  262. Dandelion Wine says:

    SouthernGent2 says:
    December 1, 2010 at 7:47 am
    Wasn’t trying to sound disrespectful Bela. Not much can really be said.

    Any guy that shells out high four to low five figures for a sb is just dumb and desparate. Why enable someone in such a manner? And on the other hand, why do some of the ladies have this attitude of such entitlement?

    Reminds me of “anybody that pays more than $300 for a purse is dumb and desperate” and
    “why get a Porsche/Benz? A car is a car, and Toyota Camris are very reliable and a great value for te dollar. Fuel-efficient too!”

  263. Jessie says:

    @ SouthernGent2

    It sure sounds like you’re talking through both sides of your mouth. In one breath the sd is dumb if he “shells out high four to low five figures for a sb,” and in the next you’re complaining that the sb has an attitude of entitlement. Doesn’t sound like there’s a happy medium where you’re concerned.

  264. SouthernGent2 says:

    NYC SB – I can see where my comment leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Not to sound unfair or one sided on my part of things, but I no longer negotiate. For the most part I will tell someone what I will or won’t do. I am a gentleman, and will no longer be taken advantage of by someone that sees me as an ATM.

  265. SouthernGent2 says:

    Wasn’t trying to sound disrespectful Bela. Not much can really be said.

    Any guy that shells out high four to low five figures for a sb is just dumb and desparate. Why enable someone in such a manner? And on the other hand, why do some of the ladies have this attitude of such entitlement?

  266. Shay says:

    Okay so the one pot responded and he wants to do p4p… which idk it’s just a psychological thing but just feels like so businesslike or something. I’m not sure what my issue is. I feel uncomfortable tho. I don’t want to argue it either, I don’t want to feel like I pressured someone into something.

    @ carebear @ southern, I’m not sure if your comments were directed toward me, but I’m asking about allowances because I don’t know what the standards are, because I’m new. I don’t think I’m ’worth’ anything, no one is worth a set amount, the entire thing is very subjective, and your ’worth’ is, as someone else said, simply whatever someone else is willing to pay. Everyone on this blog could get someone to pay 10k a month to be their sugarbaby, I guarantee it, even the men – the question then becomes, how many of those individuals exist, are you able to find them and how long would that take, how well would they have to know you before they would be willing to pay 10k, are they even on a place like SA, are they the right age and gender and temperament that you would like to be a sugarbaby to, and so on.

    The SDs would like to have the best girl they can find, and a fair amount of them would like them at the best price. I don’t think it’s wrong to discuss what that price is or how we arrive at it.

  267. NYC SB says:

    Continental Travel – In all honesty, when someone lists 10-20k I no longer take him as seriously… sure he gets a fair chance but I don’t make him my main priority (where as in the past I used to do so)
    Pretty sweet – what I said to Continental travel – yes such men exist… some are even on the site… and yes give him a chance but do not get your hopes up… the disappointment of these men can get to you … having said that… go dazzle him
    Shay – there was a wise SD on here (he no longer posts) JamesNY – he at one point said something along the lines of “For SA the 3-5k range is the sweet spot” I think focusing on that will more likely yield into an awesome SD… because that range is more realistic…
    Now excuse me while I ignore all I said and chit chat with a man advertising over 20k … joking!
    Guru – you we have discussed the answer to that question… shame you do not remember… also, stop emailing me using fake profiles :p

    Bela – ditto… just how I felt when watching the show… then I made plans to see wifey and get chipotle … im never going to be size zero… my butt is too big 😛

    SouthernGent – maybe I am misunderstanding your post… but if the allowance talk sends you running then are you really an SD? (again if I misunderstood I appologize)

  268. ToughLove says:

    @ Guru
    Yes and yes…not SB’s, still counts?

    @SanDiego SB
    No worries. As has already been discussed at length, the guys who normally play the game at that level know where to go to meet these women (lots in the industry, not just VS), in person. There are plenty of broke models looking for a wealthy boyfriend/SD in many major cities around the world. Once you know the scene, its almost anti-climatic.(Usually, they’re just girls looking for the same things most women want…) SA and sites like it are safe, really just one tier out of many.

  269. SD TWICE says:

    SouthernGent2, apparently you’ve learned something along the way 😉

  270. ElegantSugarBaby says:


    I’d appreciate it, if I could get your input as well.
    I have an SD, need input on something, from the experienced SD/SB side…

    Thank you, both!!

  271. Bela says:

    Good point, Southern. What would you recommend to a pot SB?

  272. ElegantSugarBaby says:


    It’s been a long time, since I have been on here, but you are always one for amazing advice.. I’d appreciate it if you had a moment and could write me.
    Thank you either way!!!

    I hope everyone is enjoying their Sugar this Holiday Season!!!

  273. SouthernGent2 says:

    I am just shaking my head at all this allowance talk (I’m worth this much, I should aim higher, and on and on and on with comments like that). Do you ladies know how bad that sounds? Maybe my attitude toward all this has changed over the last couple of years. That sort of talk would send me running for certain.

  274. SD TWICE says:

    I told her I will give you X you meet me for Y long in Z place and we do ABC together. Right away I got a fine let’s do it…

    A clear and simple conversation makes things quite easy in most cases. There is very positive response most of the time.

    I did offer much more than I normally would for what I was getting, but I wanted to and I adjusted for degree of difficulty also.

    That one has confirmed visiting my area in a couple of months for a much longer time with a lower allowance. We will probably see each other many times, the way things look at this point.

  275. Bela says:

    Carebear, I can’t lie. I love their long legs.

    Depending on whom you ask, America is already a third world country.

  276. carebear says:

    Bela, oh its disgusting. I don’t even think the 6’6 tall, size 00 look is that attractive, but the show itself is pretty entertaining. I hate the DB that does the damn voice over the whole time though its stupid.

    Michael, I was thinking the same thing….I wonder who third world SB is =)

    And nothing wrong with 3rd world countries! My family is moving to one! Just sayin, if we (stupid americans) aren’t careful, we may end up somewhere we may not be very used to.

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so excited! =D

  277. SD TWICE says:

    Most of my experience, which now is a fairly good sized sample, is tracking pretty well with the NYTimes article. I realize I read that article a year and a half ago too, but now I have enough experience to read it and see that what I’ve believed for a long time as an active SA customer is about where it is.

    Most of my arrangements with local SBs have not involved a set monthly allowance. They usually don’t ask for it. I think none of my long distance arrangements have ever involved a set monthly allowance. I believe the NYTimes article is refering to actual agreements in that 30% figure, as am I.

    I am always meeting SBs with the hope that a long term arrangement can be reached.

    I haven’t had any per meet arrangements where i gave 100-150 each time, especially not with a 20yr old engineering student with something on the ball. I haven’t really tried, but I don’t think I’d find it in any geographic region I can think of actually being in myself. 250, 300, 400 can be found easily, even in the most expensive of regions. 500 is never necessary to be with an interesting SB.

    Sometimes long term arrangements with steady allowance can work out to that 100-150 level when you do the math, but that’s pretty low for my world.

  278. Bela says:

    You ladies have more guts than I can dare to have. Watching VS fashion show just puts me in a bad mood resulting in homicidal fantasies for anything smaller than a size 4. Even when I worked at Victoria’s Secret I didn’t watch the show.

    On the plus side, I finally may have talked one of my friends into being my trainer for a few months. Yay!

  279. Michael Alleycat says:

    @ThirdWorldSB – playing the guessing game of where you are. Is it Malaysia? New Zealand perhaps?

  280. Third World SB says:

    Hey. Ain’t nothing wrong with third world countries. Sugar bowl in some of them is overflowing. :)

  281. carebear says:

    and I know I mispelled capitalist. It was like 5 am give me a break.

  282. carebear says:

    Re Allowance discussion….

    While some may be hott/savy enough to pull out a large 4-5 digit figure, it’s rare. I think the best way to present your desired # is to have a negotiation plan that backs up why you need/deserve that #. Aiming high for the sake of aiming high can backfire quickly, especially if the SD feels like his $ isn’t appreciated.

    I hate that some girls will use a gentleman’s naivety to leverage as much $ out of him as possible. This is essentially ‘screwing over’ the guy, and eventually he will feel it burn, thus giving him a bad taste in his mouth, and polluting the sugar bowl. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a capatlist myself, but only within reason. Words like princess, pampered, spoiled, are all traits that are tacky and don’t prove any taste or class. A SB should aspire to be poised, well-spoken, and polished…her attention should be worth her allowance, instead of completely derived on this sense of entitlement she may have.

    I’m not saying we’re all not worth 10k, because at the end of the day, you can’t put a price tag on yourself, or you’re selling yourself short. But its best to have a strategy and ‘method to the madness’, rather than blindly throwing #’s out there tilll one sticks.

    All good things in moderation, friends. Its greediness and fallacy of value that has brought our country (US) down to the level where it is today. Think, soon after job cuts and outsourcing, 3rd world countries will be more like ours, and ours will be more like 3rd world.

    Do we want the same for our beloved sugar bowl?

  283. Shay says:

    @ Midwest – Thanks. I’m not intending to belittle myself. I just don’t see why my time is more valuable than anyone else’s. That’s not a reflection of my sense of self worth, but rather a reflection of the value I place on others – even strangers who may or may not wish to stand me up. TRUE equality would prolly flip a coin and decide who visits who based on that. 😛

    If I’m visiting them I can control the duration of the meeting a lot easier. Someone who flew in from out of town may harbour some kind of disappointment/resentment if all I did was kiss their cheek after dinner … even if it that was discussed previously. And while it’s probably not too hard to figure out where someone lives in general, esp for a powerful man, it’s tougher to say follow someone home if you’re not even in the right city.

    @ Continental – oh really? that’s funny. I was thinking it would be other way round, “open” is like a car or house for sale with no price tag: danger sign for OVERPRICED! 😀 I’ll write in my profile that I want an allowance.

  284. Shay says:

    @ NYC SB, Continental

    Right, I know 10k/mo is difficult/impossible. So that’s why I’m not really focusing on that. The whole money aspect isn’t the primary reason for me searching out an SD. If it was, the money would not be enough, because that is what my life costs right now (and not because I live some glamorous lifestyle, ha). So, think I would try to find a 3-5k range, enough that it is helpful to me, and I still work my ass off and don’t have time to study tons.

    • SD Guru says:

      Can’t believe I’m still up at this time…

      @NYC SB
      Winner email of the year … “Do you squirt”… Seriously????

      Does that mean the answer is no? 😛

      You know when someone says boob or squirt Guru comes out to play. So here I am!! SD’s, raise your hand if you had a SB that squirts…

      @SanDiego SB
      i love the VS fashion show, and the girls are seriously ALL bombshells…. but oooohhhh man i can only imagine the A-hole sd’s that are watching it, thinking all the sbs on the site should look like that lol

      I don’t think all SBs on the site should look like that. But of course some SB’s do look like that. SD’s, raise your hand if you had a SB who is a lingerie/swimsuit model…

      @Pretty Sweet
      I am thinking about meeting a sd who is willing to give mee 20k/month. This just sounds wayyyy too good to be true and actually worries me.

      It should worry you. Anyone with a profile can make whatever offer they want. But how many can actually deliver?

  285. SanDiego sb says:

    i love the VS fashion show, and the girls are seriously ALL bombshells…. but oooohhhh man i can only imagine the A-hole sd’s that are watching it, thinking all the sbs on the site should look like that lol

  286. stephan says:

    @Gemi: Yes you certainly may :)

  287. Lyrenn says:


    I think the advice “If it sounds to good to be true, then is generally isn’t true.” may need to come into play here. Of course there are some crazy SD’s out there. Have you been able to verify his claim to be able to support such a number?

  288. PrettySweet says:

    Hi everyone. I have a random question and was hoping that someone might be able to help? I am thinking about meeting a sd who is willing to give mee 20k/month. This just sounds wayyyy too good to be true and actually worries me. I just can’t imagine that someone would part with that kind of money. What do you all think and has anyone had any sds that offered this amount or close to it? I appreciate the feedback, thanks! =)

  289. Michael Alleycat says:

    A-doc – daughter still lives with her, she’s 18 and going to school. But yeah, wtf, she’s 18. Put on the big girl pants! I think she has strong mothering instincts, which is lovely but don’t try them on me!

    Congrats on the bf!! Worth a serious try, I’m sure. Good luck and keep us all up to date!

  290. BiBaby says:

    VS show! I loved the peacocky wings!!


    I will give you virtual hugs if your pot poofs….I’ve soooooo been there! ((virtual hug))

    I didn’t get any info either….*wah*…can you email me?

    I got some outstanding advice from FLSD on my profile which I plan on putting into effect….BUT I have a meeting with a great pot this weekend finally, yeah!! Numbers are right and he’s the youngest one I’ve encountered (mid 40’s), so there’s no weird factor. We love the same TV shows and nerdy kind of things and I just find him utterly fascinating to talk to. It’s very natural so far and though we’ve both made it clear that if things work out, of course some sugartime is in order between us, there hasn’t been any uncomfortable periods or awkwardness about it.

    I’m excited as it seems to be less like work and more like just plain fun to talk to this gentleman and I have the “vibe” we’re going to click. He brought up the allowance first and actually asked what my goals were with it (and I have thought long and hard about that, and what I have to offer too…), which I find refreshing.

    I’m going into this with hope for the best, but realistic too as I’ve had my share of setbacks. Keeping my fingers crossed though, and yes, there WILL be a lunch and another date (dinner) before any shennanigans to be sure we’re both on that same page, I promise, I got my lecture already this month. Guess you can say I tend to be a little too “service oriented” at times. LOL! :)

  291. TexaSugah says:

    Michigan – That is just a shame. It’s so hard to find a decent SD and for some ladies to find one and then just not appreciate it is maddening. Ditch her. I know it’s daunting to find a lady and starting all over again but it can be done. There are some great ladies here and just an wee bit of what’s out there.

    I completely agree with the SDs trust your instincts.

    @SD Guru.. that was the best ever. I feel the love.

    As to the sugar list.. since I’ve found penny auctions, I’m satisfied. I just need to get the home stereo system I want for under $50 and I’m set. Strange how I end up doing my own thing because the sugar deal isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

    I would love to meet a sugardaddy that is sweet, fun and generous. One who has my best interest at heart.

    Sugary thoughts and dreams all

  292. carebear says:

    my favorite angel was chanel with the long white wings


  293. ContinentalTravel says:


    Thank you for your valuable contribution. It’s enlightening to learn that it takes so much effort to land a 10k/month SD even in NYC. It really puts claims of 10k+ allowances elsewhere in perspective.

  294. aspiring-doc says:

    @michael- i still dont get why a 19/20 yr old girl needs mummy to look after her. my parents stopped doing that at 16 😛 even puppy faces didnt work!

    @ all: im on a permanent break. namely— my best friend, highschool crush and the one that always got away- has become the one who confessed his love. After trying to ignore it for two months, ive decided this feels good and right. We have a deep, strong friendship built over five years. Emotional connection, mental connection and definite sparks.
    We are moving super slow but agreed not to see anyone else. I guess that includes sugar daddies 😛 so best luck to you all xxxx

  295. NYC SB says:

    on an unrelated note… watching the VS show makes me feel fat! Maybe another 30 day bikram challenge is in order… holly smokes these women are tiny

  296. NYC SB says:

    DW – I replied with a block :) not worth the effort…

  297. Dandelion Wine says:

    NYC SB, the only appropriate response is: “Squirt? No, my mace comes in a *spray* bottle”

  298. Midwest SB says:

    NYC SB – ROFLMAO! Tell him he owes me!

  299. NYC SB says:

    Midwest – rudolph cannot compete with VS… handkerchief man thanks you

  300. Midwest SB says:

    VS Fashion Show!!!

  301. NYGent says:

    NYC SB: nobody’s gonna top that one (I hope)

  302. Midwest SB says:

    DW – Bwahahahahaha!

    NYGent-Amen! Well said!

  303. NYC SB says:

    Winner email of the year …

    “Do you squirt”


  304. NYGent says:

    Regarding the debates over allowance, negotiation, who is worth what in this city or that, who is offended by whatever the other person does/doesn’t offer/accept: for better or worse it’s a free market. Every SB has the right to say I won’t settle for less than $___. Every SD has the right to say I won’t offer more than $____. The reasons are basically irrelevant. It is pointless for SDs to say to SBs, “hey, you’re not worth that much.” Equally pointless for SBs to say to SDs (as one poster put it), “hey, would it kill you to offer $5K/$10K (whatever), it’s not gonna break the bank for you.” (on that point, sure, I could afford to give my apartment doormen $5,000 each instead of $1K each, I could afford to give my undergrad college or my favorite charity $100K instead of $25K, none of it would “break the bank,” so to speak, but doesn’t mean I am “cheap” for choosing not to do so). Arrangements happen when both people come to a meeting of the minds on what they are willing to do. If they agree, great, if not it’s on to the next and hope it works.

  305. NYC SB says:

    Michigan – a lot of out names/handles are highlighted in blue… they are usually links to our personal blogs. If you click on my name it takes you to my blog :)

  306. @Lily – nope, daughter was still sick, so I went down there, and got a hotel. Actually worked out pretty well.

    My Skype was off the last few days – can you pls re-send.

  307. Gemi says:

    Woah the blog went from light and fantasy to heavy really fast.

    And all I want for christmas is not an ipad.

    Have a few first meets set up for the next couple of weeks. I’m learning that the more mature gentleman are willing to meet me near my town or in a town of my choosing (hey I’m a private person). and the young ones don’t want to lift a finger to meet me. lol.

    I’m thinking in a few weeks its time for a profile overall. Anyone want to take a stab at mine and see what needs changing? (Stephan, can I post my profile number here?)

  308. NYC SB says:

    Lily – I have not received anything

    Continental Travel – 10k is hitting the jackpot anywhere… be it NYC or Vancouver… although everyone states that it is easier to get that in NYC (and while statistically this might be true) I know that is not the case. NYC has a steep competition and in basic economic terms competition tends to drive prices down… For example, in 2009 when I was much more active in the sugar bowl it would take me about 3 months to land an allowance of 10k or more… sometimes it would be a combo of more than one person. This year (my search has been much lighter) it appears that most men offer a p4p deal. Last year p4p was rare and while someone may not have offered 10k they did offer a monthly allowance paid upfront… oh how the times have changed!

  309. I still watch the DVDs. It never gets old to me. I finish season seven, then start back up at 1. The cycle may take 12-18 months but never really ends.

  310. Bela says:

    Good Show. Miss the actor!

  311. Bela – To quote the great Leo McGary “Good tip. Keep’em coming”

  312. Dandelion Wine says:

    Continental, I would imagine sugar relationships have a rather small R^2.
    An average human has 1 testicle and 1 breast.

  313. Bela says:

    Michigan – The other blogs are usually found if you click on the member name (if the font is blue.)

  314. Hey dumb question, but where are these other “blogs” with more specific info re: a particular sb/ad’s experience. I’ve seen them mentioned numerous times here, but alas I’m not sure where to look.

  315. Bela says:

    hmmm Smart girl!

  316. Third World SB says:


    Occurs to me that you may have been expressing disbelief. Every country (especially many third world countries, actually) has a distribution of wealth. Rich men who either don’t have time to date IRL or aren’t getting what they are looking for out of their marriages are everywhere!

    I think I’m going to take a leaf from some other bloggers’ books and share some of my specific stories after the arrangements are no longer…

  317. Third World SB says:


    Hypothetical based somewhat in reality. =P

    Aah, I don’t want to disclose which country I am in. As you can probably imagine, there are really not a ton of SBs listed on SA in most third world countries, so that will narrow down my identity quite a bit!

  318. Lyrenn says:

    @Third World SB I do the same, and I completely agree with people learning to ignore the gut feelings. When I am teaching, it is one of my number one rules, and annoy people with how often I say it. “Trust the gut”

  319. ContinentalTravel says:


    What I was trying to say was: I use NYT because it’s the best source I can find. I find NYT to be closer to reality than Tyra Banks show or Entertainment Tonight. I need data from somewhere. But I agree that until more trustworthy research is done, or until SA provides “official” ideas of what the typical sugar relationship is like, everyone’s opinion is equally valid.

    Do you think 10/month is hitting the jackpot in NYC? Or just everywhere else in US?

  320. Bela says:

    hmmmm and this is why I no longer listen to the radio.

  321. Dandelion Wine says:

    Continental, if you were to tune into American channels only at night (your day time) you’d think a disproportionately high percentage of Americans leaves their significant others for stripper midgets, physically fights it out with a parent for affections of said parent’s partner (who oftentimes is a parent #2), etc etc.
    Regardless, I really have no idea what your point is, and whether I agree with it or not, so all I’m doing is pointing out reasoning flaws, which hardly seems productive…

  322. Third World SB says:


    I carry a knife, and pepper spray, and I know how to use both. Have I ever had to? Nope. But carrying them makes me feel a lot more confident. :) I carry those things all the time, though, not just on sugar dates. Haha.

    Really, though, meeting in upscale places makes me feel safer. No hole-in-the-wall joints and no cheap hotels. And definitely, I would never go to a SD’s place unless we’d been meeting for months already. I also always text a friend when I get to the restaurant, update them before I leave the restaurant or in transit to next place if we decide to go someone afterwards, etc. I do this for three or four dates or until I feel really comfortable with someone. If I get into a SD or pot SD’s car, I text that friend the license plate numbers. The biggest plus about this information-texting habit of mine is that usually SD’s know that I am texting a friend to check-in and take note of that. I will even say so sometimes. If someone is trying to creep on you, that is going to make them have second thoughts.

    Really though, your gut is your biggest defense mechanism. We’re sort of taught to ignore our gut instincts, and it takes some work to learn to trust ourselves. Once you get the hang of that, though, it gets a great deal easier to feel comfortable when a situation is cool, and keep your guard up when something smells fishy.

  323. Lily says:

    Did the daughter come with her?

    Muse, Michael, BiBaby, NYC sb, mindynyc, you guys got a message from me on your phone/skype today! Save the information!

  324. Michael Alleycat says:

    Cancun tomorrow for 5 days!

  325. Michael Alleycat says:

    @at Lily you mean CancelGirl? Well we finally got going today she canceled yesterday but we got together today and we are off to the races! Very fun time for several hours. This is going to be fun. Next meet next week. Unless she cancels that is ….

  326. ContinentalTravel says:

    I understand that a NYT article is not the best evidence I can provide, but I don’t have anything to look up to. My “life experience” is just as valid as another anonymous poster, so I prefer not to make too much of that. OTOH, some posters here do have year-long blogs to back up their claims, and I do take their words more seriously.

    10k/month in Vancouver, BC would be quite difficult. If that’s what you’re looking for, please do state explicitly in your profile. Many credible veterans of this blog have stated that “Open/negotiable” is almost always interpreted as “dinner/gifts are sufficient”.

    Let’s hope she changes her mind after you stopped providing the allowance. It’s unfortunate that she can not be up-front about the platonic nature of this relationship. There are men out there looking for such things.

  327. Bela says:

    Nothing is guaranteed, but the best you can do is hope for the best but plan for the worst. Trust your instincts and don’t be afraid to say no!

    I don’t care if he’s promising the Hope Diamond, no amount is worth you putting yourself at risk.

  328. FL-SD says:

    First thing of course, is screen and interview until you are really comfortable with the sd.
    Most sbs I’ve encountered use a safety call/check-in procedure, key-words, etc to maintian contact.

    All sds should be quite comfortable in providing location details in advance that meet with your approval.

    If it’s an out-of-town things ALL reservations (room, car, round-trip transportation) are pre-paid in advance non-refundable and in your name only. That way you can’t get stranded. Have enough money to take care of yourself if everything goes wrong. Do not accept arrangements that happen “after you get there”. No reasonable SD will balk at any of these requests… if they do, be forewarned…

    A good sd will work with you to ensure you are comfortable, feel safe and let someone else know you’re okay.

    Always have the means to get yourself back home in hand. That means money, phone, a friend, local help numbers. If your first private meet is local, it’s okay to drive yourself…

    It’s important to have some discussion in advance of what expectations you both have. Some of that may be a little awkward, but keep your ears open for anything that sounds unacceptable.
    You have a right to say no to things unsafe or undesirable to you.
    Those should be understood up front. That includes testing and safe-sex discussions. “Health class 101”.

    There are some good pointers in the blog archives to expand on these, also..

  329. Dandelion Wine says:

    “You’re polite and civil and you’re service-oriented.”
    Polite and civil *does not equal* service-oriented. Unless you are actually interviewing for a service-oriented position, subserviency is not a plus and can even be a hindrance.
    If he asked me to bring me a coffee on the way in I’d think it was weird but I would do it. With a smile on my face.
    That is just weird…

  330. NYC SB says:

    Shay – 10k is hitting the jackpot … If that’s your minimum then anticipate a long search. Having said that think about your minimum and hopefully you find someone awesome which will be somewhere in between. Having had a high allowance sd I will caution you that it is a lot of work … And by work I mean they expect more from you in terms of being available, looking your best and catering to their whims … Just something to think about :)

  331. NYGent – I don’t intend to pay a hangout allowance. But hey I get that not every single meeting will end up in a bed someplace. Ok I figure it’s part of the arrangement. It’s one of the things that differentiates it from prostitution really. If we meet once a week but every three/four weeks we just do dinner or lunch or a show with no play, I’m totally ok with that. But truthfully to pay someone to just hang out all the time. Uhh no thanks. lol There are plenty of beautiful interesting woman who will have dinner with me for free if there isn’t even a slight chance of sex. IRL I’m the king of just friends, so paying 3-5gs a month for that is ridiculous.

  332. Lyrenn says:

    I am reading allot of comment about “first meetings”

    So here is my question for mainly SB’s but also SD’s.

    What steps do you take to protect your self, phycially?

    Yes we all know to meet in public the first time, but what about the first time you are private, or the person you meet in public threatens you?

    I am certified to teach two forms of self-defense, and know a bunch from being the Grand-daughter of a marine. So I know how to protect myself if needed. But there is always some one stronger.

    What are y’all thoughts?

  333. Shay says:

    what would make me happy … honestly, 10k/mo AND an SD that I liked. if I had that locked up, I could pay for all my schooling, I wouldn’t have to work, I could spend like 60 hrs a week just hardcore studying. Life would be great. But SD Guru said that kind of allowance is hard to come by so I think I shouldn’t limit myself, rather just find the best SD I can, work as well then study with whatever time I have left …

  334. Midwest SB says:

    Shay – Respectfully, Third World is giving you stellar advice. I can already tell you will be a great SB simply because you are all about making sure your SD is considered. OTOH – Do NOT belittle yourself. These are wise, successful business men who understand risk and have taken risks in far more volatile scenarios. Therefore, ACCEPTING their OFFERS to come and see you would be the ladylike and safer thing to do. In addition, this is a first meet, not a marathon date. It’s a chance to see if you are who you say you are in the profile; see if you like each other; see if you want to move forward…then you have the longer date. First meets should be coffee or drinks and possible dinner if all goes well. I don’t recommend anything further for many reasons, but mostly because both men and women let a few drinks spoil what has the potential to be a wonderful, long-term arrangement. Say or kiss him goodnight after a few hours tops together, thank him for the lovely visit and send him to his hotel/ destination. To accompany him any further isn’t necessary and hopefully leaves you two wanting more. Be more accommodating when it becomes a mutually beneficial arrangement…show him how it keeps getting better!

    BTW – This is not a job interview…it’s sugar. Meaning it’s a lot like dating, a little like a job, and hopefully a little naughty :-)

  335. NYC SB says:

    Shay – you don’t know what your range is? That’s like selling a house but not knowing which price to list it at! Figure out what would make you happy then go for it… If an SD is genuine and his budget is higher than what you are asking then he will make it up otherwise (better gifts, travel, etc)

  336. Shay says:

    third world – well if you are going in for a dreamjob interview are you going to kick up your feet on the hiring man’s desk just because he’s not your boss? No. You’re polite and civil and you’re service-oriented. If he asked me to bring me a coffee on the way in I’d think it was weird but I would do it. With a smile on my face. 😀

    If I’m looking at an SD in New York, maybe I’ll take the flight with the layover and he’ll fly first class, but the transportation isn’t convenient for either of us. Airplanes are a pain. They smell weird and security is annoying and there’s always someone shoving into you or pushing their wailing kid into your ear. Everything takes 4x longer than it should. IDK, if I was really that concerned about getting stood up I think it might make the most for the SB to travel and the SD to pay for it. That way the SD isn’t cutting time away from his busy schedule, the $ he spent on the travel expenses is relatively insignificant to him but provides psychological reassurance to the SB and displays a token effort (he’s not the only one shouldering “risk”). You’d think that if someone spent $1k or whatever to fly you out that they’d not stand you up and if they did it was for a very good reason. I don’t need to screen for an SD willing to fly from NY to vancouver because that’s never going to be something I would ask from him.

    Re: negotiation, well it goes both ways. On the one hand maybe I deal with some bargain hunter SDs but I’m also not artificially capping myself for the higher budget ones. If you list as 3-5k maybe that’s the most you’ll ever get. Plus idk what my target range is yet. What am I worth? SB: starving student. friendly and cute. Likes to argue and ponder the meaning of life. hmmmmmmmmmmmm

  337. NYGent says:

    NYC SB: does sound familiar, doesn’t it?

    MichiganDaddy: if you enjoy her just being arm candy and are willing to pay a “hang out” allowance you can continue to do so, but at this point (based on experience) there is no realistic prospect of her suddenly awakening to the concept of mutually beneficial. The cold feet syndrome (putting the most generous gloss on it)

  338. Third World SB says:

    I would like to point out that the SB is NOT the service-oriented person in the relationship until she has a reason to be. Aka cash flow or other perks. But you should do what you are comfortable with. I am not even comfortable taking a 45 minute bus ride to meet a pot, and since I don’t have a car, I tell them the first meet has to occur in the particular city neighborhood that I live in. Why? Because I’m not interested in commuting 45 minutes only to get stood up. It’s happened to me before. SD’s have money and can take very convenient forms of transportation that wouldn’t be affordable to you.

    I started out with the “open to negotiation” thing, but I quickly realized that having that meant people were going to try to offer me as little as possible. It becomes exactly what is says, a game of negotiation. Now I list a more specific amount, because I have a feel for what I think I should get in the area where I live. But again, that took some time to figure out.

    I just started dating SD’s relatively recently, and my biggest mistake at the beginning was aiming lower than I should have. I should have listed $3-5k or $5-10k on my profile to begin with, I should have made every pot SD meet me in my neighborhood for the first meeting, and I shouldn’t have jumped into arrangements (or really, failed experiments) with the first several SD’s who offered me enough money to pay my rent.

    Every city/situation is different. Ultimately, do whatever you are comfortable with and trust your gut. But I think you are probably selling yourself a little short. Expect your SD to expend some effort, be it via his actions or finances. It’s a great screening tool.

  339. SD TWICE says:

    Shay, you are highly mobile and available. You have huge advantages in the sugar search.

  340. Shay says:

    third world – thanks for disclosing that. And thanks for the advice. You are right, I shouldn’t be worried about offending them just by bring up terms. So really you made someone with a personal chef go to your hometown to have dinner with you first? I feel sick just thinking about trying to pull that off myself lol!

    Really though both parties are at risk of getting stood up. So for me the question of who should take the risk is about, who is the best judge of character, whose time is worth less (in terms of $), whose schedule is the most flexible, who is the most difficult to verify in terms of seriousness/legitimacy, and who is the service-oriented person in the arrangement-to-be. In my personal situation I would say it’s me for all of those qualifiers, but it might be different for other SBs. For a well known SB with a schedule and kids and that wants the kind of daddy who is going to be doting on her rather than the other way round, it may make more sense for the daddy to meet her.

    bela – ya I live in vancouver. it is very pretty here, you should visit :)

    SD twice – if the blog doesn’t hug me, I may be too traumatized to continue my drive over to the 2nd SD …. 😛

    My profile just says that I am option to negotiation. I didn’t really want to restrict myself.

    michigan – well for me, all of the pots I am looking at are mainly american, out of seattle and further out from me. I cross the border regularly on my own so it doesn’t factor in as a setback for me. Might be different for other SBs, not sure.

  341. Bela says:

    behave SD TWICE :p

  342. Shay- we’ll I’m pretty close to Canada but have never received a response from any of the Canadian potential SB’s I’ve contacted. would you not be interested if you had to deal with border issues? while not exceptionally close, Toronto seems to have far better options that what I’m finding in the so called auto capital of the world.

  343. SD TWICE says:

    Shay says:
    November 30, 2010 at 10:45 am
    will you guys hug me if my very first pot poofs on me? lol

    NO because you are meeting two :p

  344. SD TWICE says:

    Shay, what does your profile say about your financial needs and any other arrangement terms?

    You could ask, ‘What types of arrangements do you feel comfortable with?’ Then you’ll be back on the blog saying ‘he said this…’ Now what should I do… :)

    Humility will go a long way in finding a great SD; just always be careful too.

  345. Bela says:

    Canada is definitely on my list of places to see. I have some college friends who live in Vancouver and Montreal.

  346. Third World SB says:


    Yeah, but you will feel way worse about getting stood up if you drive three hours to get there and then your date doesn’t show! I always require men to take me to dinner in my hometown, unless I happen to be traveling to their town for another reason or feel like for some reason I really wanted an excuse to visit their town, etc.

    Also, just say “I’m seeking financial support in the form of an allowance.” If that phrasing is offensive to them, they were never going to give you what you wanted anyway. They are (or should be) expecting to hear that. Throwing a range out there isn’t a bad idea either. But I agree that I like to know what their proposed terms are before I propose an allowance amount.

    For example, SD A takes me out to fancy dinners every week, takes me on shopping sprees, and gives me fantastic and relevant career advice. I see him for 2k a month.

    SD B has me spend the night at his house once a week. (He is very high-profile, known all throughout his city, and hates taking SBs to hotels in his conservative home country.) His personal chef cooks for us. He doesn’t take me shopping, only provides me with an allowance. I don’t particularly like spending the night out, but it is important to him, so I oblige. I ask him for 4k a month, because I’m not getting the other perks that I’m getting with SD A.

    Ultimately, this works for me because I feel like both relationships are worth for me what I am putting into them. That, in my opinion, is what matters. You need to be totally thrilled about the amount of financial support you are getting, and not feel like seeing your SD is a chore. Otherwise it is going to wear on you.

  347. Bela says:

    Awww Shay – Unfortunately, and you can ask plenty of SB’s (as well as SD’s), it’s a certainty that you will strike out at least once. It’s nothing against you, but that is part of what happens. The most important thing to continue to handle yourself well and not let yourself get upset. Of course, the virtual hug is also a part of it :)

  348. Shay says:

    michigan – haha try canada eh. everyone is nice here! 😀 the one place where you can step on someone’s toes and make THEM say sorry!

  349. Shay says:

    :( will you guys hug me if my very first pot poofs on me? lol

  350. Shay where do I find a women with your attitude? lol. A little sb gratitude would go long way.

  351. Bela says:

    Shay – Typically, if they ask me what I’m looking for (yes, I give them a chance to initiate) I ask what they’ve had in the past. If they’ve never had a sugar relationship before, I tell them what has worked for me in the past. If that’s not something they like, I remind them that my preference isn’t the same as everyone elses and there are plenty babies who have no issue with being in gift or travel arrangements. I don’t get upset because I figure if either one of us enters into this reluctantly, that just increases the chances of “poofing.”

  352. Third World SB says:


    Love the modified P4P idea. Great compromise that provides both stability and incentive for availability.

  353. Shay says:

    SD Twice – hehe ok 😀 and yes it is the same drive.

    Bela – oh I see. That makes a lot of sense and seems very fair. Ok so if I want an allowance, what is a nice way to mention that?

    Midwest – they both actually volunteered to come to me. I think I feel less comfortable with that option because if I don’t really like them then I’d still feel obligated to spend time with them in this city that’s unknown to them. And I’d also feel guilty for not liking them if they came all the way out. These are supposed to be important businesspeople etc, their time is worth something, I’m just another starving student. If I drive down there and we meet and I don’t like them I can just hop in my car and get out of dodge. I’d still meet them in a public place etc, I think the safety levels are pretty similar.

  354. NYC SB says:

    Michigan – most of my arrangements have been “x allowance per month and we will try to meet 4 times a month” I always held up my end of the bargain because (as in your case) when an sb flakes the sd will replace her… Sure she made one month of allowance but then he is gone … Not worth it

  355. Bela says:

    No reason to apologize. The SB’s get the chance to vent when they’re frustrated. SD’s should get the same option. SB’s are capable of being just as shady unfortunately. Don’t give up :)

  356. Lol. Well none of my needs are being met right now, but I dont think it’s the terms. I fear if I offer a straight monthly stipend all I’ll hear is too busy, can’t this week etc….

    Sorry. lol this most recent experience has me even more jaded than normal.

  357. Bela says:

    Interesting idea. As long as your needs are being met and you feel there is actual chemistry

  358. I’ve no problem paying travel expenses up front for a first meeting. Seems reasonable and cordial enough. And while I appear to not be the best judge of an sb’s character, I really balk and giving any further incentives just to meet. I like to actually meet the person I’m supposed to be in the “relationship” with to kinda see what they are all about.

    Also, historically I’ve used a modified p2p type system wherein we set a number for each “visit” but with a monthly minimum of $$. I think this allows her to have some income stability but with the option to get more if we see each other more frequently. Kinda like incentive pay if you will.

  359. Midwest SB says:

    Shay – 1st meets are exciting, but also risky. Many pot SDs who want to keep your safety in mind would come to see you for the first meet. This allows you to be in a familiar, public environment where you can vouch for your own safety. Pot SDs have flown in to see me without hesitation and it was absolutely worth it. Typically this meant having to wait a week or two for logistics, but it gives you more time to get to know one another. Consider this before you consider a 6 hour round trip at your expense.

  360. Bela says:

    Shay – Discussing what type of arrangement the pot is in search of is different from discussing numbers. Before travel arrangements are discussed, I want to make sure that we are both on the same page in terms of what type (gift,travel,allowance,etc) and what level of intimacy he desires. There is a clear distinction that he shouldn’t expect any physical intimacy just like I wouldn’t expect to start receiving an allowance on day zero. That works for me, but it may not work for you. I enjoy the traveling and I always go with a back up plan in case it doesn’t work out.

    • SD Guru says:

      It’s great to see some new faces posting in the past few days!! I’d like to remind everyone of the “Pages” section in the blog where answers to frequently discussed topics can be found. It’s located at the lower right column of the blog’s home page. You can read about topics such as “Questions every SB should ask“, “Communicating with SD’s“, “Travel Guidelines for SB’s“, and “The Five Stages of Sugar” and several others.

      Without sounding like a broken record, I’d like to repeat my golden rules of sugar dating:

      1. Don’t reward bad behavior.
      2. Don’t ignore warning signs.
      3. Don’t expect someone’s behavior to change over time.

      And since we’re in a group hug mode, let’s repeat these sugar mantras together:

      1. I ALWAYS have choices.
      2. I am RESPONSIBLE for the choices I make.
      3. I will NOT let anyone force me to do things I’m not comfortable with.

      This is why I always tell the newbies that their experiences in the sugar world will usually depend on the choices they make. Therefore, choose wisely and be ready to live with your choices. Now take a deep breath and think happy surgary thoughts!! I can’t believe I just wrote all that touchy feely stuff… the holidays must be coming!!

      As for my sugar wish list? I already have everything I need! :mrgreen:


      @Third World SB
      For example, SD A…, SD B… Ultimately, this works for me because I feel like both relationships are worth for me what I am putting into them… my biggest mistake at the beginning was aiming lower than I should have. I should have listed $3-5k or $5-10k

      Are SD A and B actual or hypothetical examples? If they are actual examples, what part of third world are you located?

      @NYC SB
      I don’t disclose the penalty of course… I simply state I am looking for x per month

      Does that approach apply to the hot guy discount too? 😆

      I always held up my end of the bargain because when an sb flakes the sd will replace her… Sure she made one month of allowance but then he is gone … Not worth it

      You’d think that all SB’s have the same common sense as you do, but unfortunately that’s not the case. This goes back to the post I wrote about why some arrangements don’t last from the SD’s perspective. The reasons from SB’s perspective are similar and I’ll elaborate more in my blog later. It usually comes down to (1) the SB never intended to hold up her end of the deal in the first place, (2) she decided that the allowance/benefits she received wasn’t worth what she provided to the SD, or (3) she realized that she doesn’t enjoy spending time with her SD and no amount of allowance can change that.

      @SD TWICE
      I told her I will give you X you meet me for Y long in Z place and we do ABC together. Right away I got a fine let’s do it…

      You must be very generous if the discussion was that easy! What percentage of your experiences are p4p type vs on-going arrangement type? I’m not judging, just curious. Feel free to contact me through the email addy in my blog if you don’t want to disclose it here.

  361. SD TWICE says:

    Shay, you probably shouldn’t drive 3 hours without some indications. Especially check out the newbie. If they won’t bring it up, you do it. You will have to learn at some point how to do it tactfully so start today.

    I hope its the SAME 3 hr drive and you can meet them both.

  362. Shay says:

    oh and JUST before I wrote that first post, the experienced pot SD sent me an email asking me about my terms. :) :)

  363. Shay says:

    bela – I would prefer to do it that way but it seems different if that travel is involved for the first meeting. Three hours drive just to find out someone wants a gf they buy fancy dinners for is kind of suboptimal. Then there are other SDs that look interesting that are well across the country. In that type of situation would you still hold out til after meeting?

  364. Bela says:

    That’s interesting. I usually don’t think too much about numbers until after the first meeting. I guess everyone’s different.

  365. Shay says:

    Ok. I have been emailing two pot SDs that I like and they are both three hours drive away from me. One is very new and has never had an SB before and I’m unsure of what he would think is appropriate. The other one is more experienced and I feel like he is likely to be pretty reasonable. But neither have actually said anything about terms and I’m wondering if they’d let me make the entire trek out there without bringing it up. I don’t really want to bring it up myself because I’d want to meet them before I would know what my limits/terms are going to be.

  366. SD TWICE says:

    Terms talk… A couple of weeks ago I met someone who after my intitial email asked what I proposed. I told her I will give you X you meet me for Y long in Z place and we do ABC together. Right away I got a fine let’s do it…

    It took about a “hundred” emails/sms to get the actual logistics done to get to the meeting, but the deal never changed and no mention of that was ever made; we just worked out practical problems together.

  367. Thanks for all of the good advice. I usually try to talk specific numbers at the first meeting, but that I’ve found the sb usually brings it up pretty early in the emails.

  368. NYC SB says:

    Ny Gent – did you move to michigan?

  369. NC Gent says:

    I have sent modest amounts of money ($200 or less) to an SB prior to her traveling to meet me (for the first time) to cover some of her expenses (travel to airport, phone bill, etc), and I have never been burned. They were all legitimate SB candidates so some times you have to trust your instincts.

    Shay — I prefer to initiate the terms of the arrangement conversation, but I certainly don’t mind if an SB asks me about the terms of my previous sugar relationships.

  370. Bela says:

    To add onto SDTWICE, I personally wouldn’t really make many commitments at all until after meeting. People get a bit tricky and unrealistic.

  371. SD TWICE says:

    Shay, there are a variety of possible moments to start the arrangement part of the conversation. It also does not have to be done all at once. I think early on is good because you find out soon whether you are compatible in this critical regard.

    So when? My method is to sense what the SB is feeling. Ease into the subject and see what she wants to discuss at that point. Early email is good. On the phone call. At first meeting almost for sure.

    Last night I met someone with whom I had not discussed anything, but I had indication from the profile I could handle her needs. Around the middle of the meeting (She or I, I dont remember) went into it and we sailed through all of it with a few side bars along the way. Very painless, but there was some discussion about amount and timing, particularly for the first two weeks.

  372. SD TWICE says:

    Michigan, as to your further search…absolutely under NO circumstances EVER send money to someone you have not met. These are not legit SB candidates either because they are rip off artists or because they simply do not know how to have an arrangement in a proper and fair sense.

    Either way, NEXT.

  373. Shay says:

    SDs when do you feel is the most appropriate time to discuss the terms of the arrangement and do you prefer to initiate this conversation yourself?

  374. SD TWICE says:

    Michigan, the thing to take away from this is that you need to bail very early at signs of trouble. You could talk to her (you did) and with a normal person this might lead to some results, but in sugarland most likely you will get some BS designed to get you to stick around a bit longer.

    If you do talk and stick, do it once. that’s it. Done.

    The more experience you have the more itchy your trigger finger will get, and the more and earlier will you see signs.

    The next thing to take away is the lesson of giving too much too soon. Its a recipe for losing out. Someone legit who really wants a genuine sugar relationship with you will build together in an even handed manner.

  375. Bela says:

    Definitely her loss. Well done 😉

  376. I’ve certainly brought it up to her. I get a whole bunch of next time, sorry, and how much she “likes” me. Lol. Which I don’t believe a word of. I’m bailing. It’s her loss. I’m 35, attentive, generous, clean and I deliver what I promise. But you’re all correct. She’s gotta go.

  377. Bela says:

    Michigan – Have you brought this up with her yet? I agree with Alleycat and Midwest, but making sure she’s aware of why the arrangement is ending might result in some good karma.

  378. FL-SD says:

    @ Michigandaddy – Agree with Michael. Time to bail.
    Been there, done that.
    I think some ladies aren’t really prepared to actually enter an arrangement. When the arrangement actually occurs, there are second thoughts….

  379. I’ve been trying to keep it localish, within a couple hours drive, because my schedule is always changing so committing to travel is difficult. And look i don’t mind lunching without play sometimes. It’s nice and helps establish the “relationship” as more than just sex. But like I said I’ve delivered everything I’ve promised and aside from just demanding sex, which itself is sleazy, this isn’t what I signed up for. It’s supposed to be natural but expected. I refuse to just show up demand sex leave money then bounce.

  380. Midwest SB says:

    Michigandaddy- The whole concept around sugar is “mutually beneficial” and it sounds as if she is falling short. Personally, I would cut my losses. My former SD is in the SW region…perhaps you two can discuss the stats of the region and you can be more enlightened. Are you seeking someone close, or is long-distance an option? Even though the frequency of visits may be less, you can spend long weekends together, etc. LDR will certainly give you more ladies to choose from :-)

    Stephan – Could you please share my e-mail with Michigandaddy? Thanks sugar!

    PS – Your friends are probably doing it too and thinking you would be mortified if you found out!!

  381. Michael Alleycat says:

    Michigan – bail. Now. If the arrangement was to have play included, and you aint getting it, time to go This is meant to be mutually beneficial and it isn’t. Don’t worry about leaving her high and dry, she is certainly leaving you high and dry.

  382. Long time lurker, first time posting. I’m currently looking for a new sb. First one ran its course after about a year we’re still friends and have lunch but no more arrangement. I’ve found the site to be an absolute minefield. The young women I’ve spoken too seem to want $$ before we agree to even meet. It’s maddening. I though I had found a great one, beautiful we connected, but after a month of sugar plus several gifts she does nothing but make excuses about how she’s only available for lunch or dinner but no play. it’s been over month now and I will not continue like this. That said I genuinely like the girl and don’t want to just leave her high and dry.

    I know this is off topic, but I’m unsure if I should just bail, confront her or be patient and this is really the only place to actually air this stuff out. My friends would be mortified.

  383. NYC SB says:

    I don’t disclose the penalty of course :) I simply state I am looking for x per month

  384. Bela says:

    Survived the post-holiday Monday.

    NYC SB and Alleycat’s penalties are very interesting. I wonder how that gets entered into the conversation :)

    I had to let go of a pot. He was very nice, but very new and wanted to move way too fast. While respectful and honest, he wanted to call me his “baby” before even meeting. Next!

  385. SD TWICE says:


    Are SD members that flake on an SB after one night or a short time any different than regular dating situations where you get involved with someone you think you should and then they stop calling? Should they be in this sugar world any different?

    All of us, our girlfriends, our guy friends, have plenty of stories where people we decided to get involved with flaked.

    I think as it pertains to the sugar world, be CAUTIOUS. Do not OVER EXTEND yourself with another person. The online sugar world is probably much more risky than online dating and certainly real world sugar or dating. Act accordingly. Be wise and wary, but realize risks are there in sugar as in all other relationship situations.

  386. SD TWICE says:

    Another thing I wanted to mention about the bank account/credit card questions which I didn’t have time for since I was gearing up for a meeting which now looks like it will shift my sugar activity into 5th gear from 4th…

    Without having tried this in practice myself… In addition to the SB bank account, have the SB get a bank issued credit card. Even if the SB can only get a very low credit limit, the SB establishes some credit history with the card. I’m guessing the SD could put CREDIT balances on the card in pretty much all and just as easily the same ways as with the other devices. This makes the credit limit irrelevant during the arrangement.

    I don’t know much about how these credit scoring systems work, but I’d imagine it would be a positive for the SB to have a card with a good history and maybe even a bonus for having credit balances, or upgrades in credit limits based on spending enabled by the credit balances?

    Well, I’m not sure, but it sounds good. Its also low/no cost/fee, so everything goes right to the SBs benefit.

  387. Michael Alleycat says:

    @NYC SB – from my end, there is the “closer to my daughters age than my age” penalty, which reduces the allowance. Or increases it. Never can figure that one out.

  388. NYC SB says:

    70? I wouldn’t be able to deal with that… 55 is my cut off … Of course if you are over 50 you face “older than my dad penalty” which is added onto my desired allowance

  389. Lily says:

    He pays for everything. Meaning your needs and wants in life, or just the dates you two go on together?

    Regardless, you should have a heart to heart with him about what sort of relationship he is really seeking, whether it’s a NSA affair with perks on both sides, or a traditional relationship, with the whole love/marriage goal.

    Hopefully he’ll open up to you about where he’s at. Then you can clearly respond with how well that matches up with where you’re at, and you guys can cut to the chase and figure out if it’s kismet indeed, or simply not a match, despite how nice he is and how much you were hoping he was going to be a good SD for you.

    carebear – I love how you are playing matchmaker. I agree with your idea for setting up SpiritualBaby. :)

  390. NEW2this says:

    Thought i found a good SD. Treating me nicely,paying for everything. Yet despite all i have said for my emotional involvement, knowing he is an SD etc. he is still (after a couple of days each time mentioning/expecting me)to have some romantic/love attachment to him. How do i get out this nicely? Thank you! I dont know if i have explained my situation well enough please feel free to ask questions :). Thank you again!

  391. Lyrenn says:


    Well first, thanks for the compliment for the blog, but really it is just a place for me to be as candid as I want, about what ever I want.

    Second, I am not “age” it is just a odd similarity. I alway post under Lyrenn. My 70yo looks more like he is 50 so yay for me I guess.

  392. Jessie says:

    Hi guys, I’m new to the site…just discovered the blog. Just wanted to ask if you usually work out an allowance before relating too much of your personal info.

  393. Dandelion Wine says:

    Continental Travel, half the article is about B.K., who from what I understand paid at least 3 times as much to the grad student with taut abs than to Lola, with whom he was supposedly in love. The man just sounds like an all-around obnoxious douche.
    The author was clearly trying to meet the word limit, but started to run empty, hence the “statistics”. There are two kinds of statistics – the kind you look up and the kind you make up :)

  394. OK my question to the PRO SB’s is is it wrong to have more than one sd at a time? And how do you negotiate allowance? Seems like I am meeting extremely cheap SDs, like 5k a month is going to break them!! wtf? you claim to be a multimillionaire?!! Yes I am a newbie, but I’m not settling!
    Seems like they get soo offended, if you want to negotiate!??

  395. Shay says:

    midwest – I was searching a number of cities not even remotely near me, to get a sense of what was out there. In my own area things prove a bit more scarce, although there are still a couple of interesting ones.

    bibaby – that’s interesting. idk if I would read to much in someone being “always” on. I’ve been online ever since I signed up for SA – I don’t turn my computer off and I always have a million windows open. And if someone hasn’t found an SB, maybe it just means they are fussy and waiting for someone just perfect, and maybe that someone is YOU 😀

  396. Ariana says:

    Hi everyone, this is day 2 joining the site and I met my first pot at a local sports bar. We emailed and chatted by phone for 2 days and found we lived near each other. We met tonight at a local sports bar and he was funny, intelligent, had a lot of stories to tell. We decided to make this a weekly meeting and did a little kissing by the car. He briefly brought up the arrangement and we agreed, and he did provide P4P tonight before we left to leave the restaurant in our own cars to our own houses. So I just wanted to say I had a great experience being a newbie so far and just hoping it all goes this smoothly!

  397. Midwest SB says:

    PS – He wouldn’t consider “possibly pulling money back if the arrangement ends”. He would consider it a write-off and move on.

    OC – Send some of that sunshine my way please!

    Goodnight sugars!

  398. NYGent says:

    Lyrenn: I’m confused, are you and “age” the same person or is the 70 y.o. SD for both of you just a coincidence? Not that there’s anything wrong with it, and you have a nice and interesting blog . . .

  399. msdiiva says:

    Hello all, : )
    So after worrying about my SD not carring enough, he suprised me with a call this afternoon, he sounded very excited to call, he off the bat explained how he was very busy with work and the kids, so I completely understood. i’m just happy he brought it up and didnt flat out ignored the fact he didnt contact me. And He’s calling back tomorrow to make plans, very excited for this next dat, we might be going christmas shopping, I need a new Laptop and to satisfy my shoe addiction lol.

    @ Bella i agree with your comment, when it comes down to it, if there’s no intimacy and you’re not enjoying yourself, it’s not all that great. although in an SD/Sb relationship, I always find having a great lover as a plus, cause if your 21 and your sd’s in his 70’s hmm there might not be much chemistry there.

  400. age says:

    everything about the situation is perfect. sex is a little off because of the age difference but not to him…so i can pretend lol. but yes he is 70 and i just can’t seem to get past the stares we get when walking together.

  401. Lyrenn says:


    Well the pot SD I am meet tomorrow is 70. I am 23. so thats a BIG difference. 47 years to be precise. We have been talking on the phone allot, so I do have hopes there is a spark though.

    On a different note, the pot I met this evening was lovely, very charming and I was attracted to him. When we got home he later messaged me and explained why he felt we would not work out, even though we had great chemistry. I apparently reminded him of his daughter, in facial expressions and the way I speak. (by the way I take pride in speaking clearly and properly)

    So my question is for SD/SB’s both. Has this happened to you? Is it common?

  402. ContinentalTravel says:


    According to the NY Times article, 30% of arrangements on SA is allowance based. I guess the rest are travel/gift based daddies. How did they get this stat? I don’t know. Until sugar relationships become US Census questions, I would have to take NYT journalism as the best data I can find.

    As an anecdotal, when I was in my mid 30’s, driving a Benz E class and paying for dinner ($100-150 today’s dollar for two) seemed to help bridge 10-15 years of age gap. And these are girls I had no chance of dating back in my college days. That was in Canada, though. Was I an SD? I don’t know. What I do know is that I definitely used money to tilt the playing field to my favor. I looked young for my age, but there was no way I could compete against 20 something surfer/musician guys on looks.

  403. BiBaby says:

    Yes. I was with a 68yr old SD and it was very, very difficult to deal with the 35+ yr age difference when it came to intimacy. He was in great shape for his age but there are just some changes we are not prepared for…dentures coming out, changes to the “family jewels”, thinning or completely missing hair, and yes the skin takes on a different texture altogether as well. It just wasn’t my bag personally but it might work for you. Just be prepared for some surprises that his 65 yr old wife might have anticipated but you didn’t….

    I think the profile created date also updates each time they update their stats or photos, as I notice mine changes too.

    I actually am more wary of the ones who are on in my area EVERY time I log on, than I am of new vs. old profiles. When you search it’s normal to see some of the same guys from time to time, but there are I swear 10-15 guys who are ALWAYS on, all the time on SA, in my area and seem to never find a good SB. I tend to skip over those profiles.

  404. Midwest SB says:

    Ladies – <3 I'd do the same for you.

    SD TWICE – I appreciate your need for verification, but the people who matter know the details and know that I'm a genuine SB who speaks from experience. As for what you call "Luxury SDs"…I find them to be the men who flash their private plane and black AMEX due to narcism and the need to have power over others This is a gross generalization, as there is a small percentage who do not behave this way. My experiences have been with what I call "Genuine SDs"…the men who really look out for your best interests in the arrangement…someone who wants to take pride in your success…someone who can't wait to see you again, but is patient….someone who sees their success as a means to help others. See the diff? If you continue to find the need for "references"…ask anyone who has met me.

    Shay/ DW – Just for the record, I do believe men renew as needed because the good ones can find a new SB within a month. Other than that, I think you're lucky that you find a fair number with recent profile dates. In the midwest, the number of SDs drop dramatically, then many of those haven't been active for the past six months. It's a nice way to screen your profiles before contacting people.

  405. Shay says:

    @ age – no.

    @ carebear – oh I see, weird. ty :)

  406. Yaz says:

    OC ~ Good one lol

  407. carebear says:

    Shay, when the premium membership expires, it sets the ‘profile created date’ to the current date, and vice versa, when you subscribe, your profile created date is reissued to today’s date. Weird.

    DW-travel/gift daddy is a SD without the sugar. Yes, a bf, with extraordinary benefits leaning heavily on one side.

    Michael- have nflx, ibm, mc. hopped on the apple train a little too late though.

  408. age says:

    sbs- do you think a 70 yr old sd is too old?

  409. Shay says:

    So I was looking over my list of saved favourites on SA… I have 16 SDs that I favourited from different cities around north america. Then I noticed that 14/16 of the profiles I saved were created in November 2010. One was from October 2010 and the other was June 2010.

    What’s the reason behind that? Do SDs quickly find SBs and move on? Or do they move on because what’s here isn’t working for them? Or am I just strangely attracted to newbies. :)

  410. Dandelion Wine says:

    So I have a question.
    What in the world is a “travel” or “gift” SD?
    Is it like a normal boyfriend that takes his gf on trips and buys her gifts, except older and with a lot more attitude/expectations?

  411. BiBaby says:

    I finally got Internet again today, yeah!! I’m going through DT’s here…

    Regarding “sale” SB’s, I will admit with my 1st gift daddy, both times I went shopping, I DID pick out stuff on sale. I really have no regrets though…they were items I LOVED and they happened to be less than regular price at the time. One dress was even half off and he offered to buy one 3x the price that was new but we both found the half off one was way more flattering and just worked better. I don’t consider the price of something one way or the other, just whether or not I can USE it and if I LOVE it.

    When I went shopping several times with my before-last SD, I had a target “budget” and if things were on sale I could get a lot more bang for (his) buck, so I shopped accordingly. No regrets.

    If being saavy on shopping makes me a discount and less desirable SB, well then so be it. I hate to waste money and to me the worst way to waste it is to be more concerned with cost (high OR low) than quality of what you’re getting and appreciating what is bought, whatever the price. :)

    • OCSugarBaby ♥ says:

      SD Twice I think you understand fully what a NITEMARE it would be to post such specifics on the blog. Now play nice :)

  412. Lily says:

    SD TWICE – Us long term bloggers typically don’t actually disclose all the details of our arrangements here in public. However, many of us are cyber friends off-blog, and some of us are even IRL pals.
    If you’d like to have Guru give Midwest your email address and you ask her to drop you a line so you can discuss details via email, then if she’s so inclined to cue you in on her particulars, she will, and your inquisitiveness will be answered. If there’s any other reason you have a personal comment or question that isn’t blog-appropriate, but you wish to discuss 1-on-1 via email, then, again, that whole having-Guru-swap-emails thing works beautifully.

  413. Lily says:

    SD TWICE – Us long term bloggers typically don’t actually disclose all the details of our arrangements here in public. However, many of us are cyber friends off-blog, and some of us are even IRL pals.
    If you’d like to have our moderator, Guru, give Midwest your email address and you ask her to drop you a line so you can discuss details via email, then if she’s so inclined to cue you in on her particulars, she will, and your inquisitiveness will be answered. If there’s any other reason you have a personal comment or question that isn’t blog-appropriate, but you wish to discuss 1-on-1 via email, then, again, that whole having-Guru-swap-emails thing works beautifully.

  414. WCSD says:

    There are many web sites that compare prepaid credit cards (just google it). In Canada (I know that doesn’t help many on here), but the BMO Prepaid Travel Mastercard is great. A $10 initial fee, but no reloading fee, no monthly fee and a $10K limit (which is within most ‘budgets’ that you’ll find). Some have some high fees, but there are some that are better than others….you just need to screen (oops…that was the last subject…)

  415. SD TWICE says:

    Midwest, do you have an SD now? How long have each of your “Luxury SDs” lasted? What percentage of the time you have been an active sugar have you had an SD and what percentage of your overall expectations been met over that time?

  416. Lily says:

    Ya know, the main point with reloadable credit cards is to avoid having the money either in cash (insecure, can’t book online with it), and on our books for accounting purposes.

    and paypal costs a fortune. 3%? horrendous. reloadable visas are typically waaaaay lower in fees, overall.

  417. SD TWICE says:

    stay single

  418. Lily says:

    SanDiego sb – amen.

    Midwest – Whoosh, nothing but the net. As usual.

    For Christmas, I’m just hoping for everything on my plate to stay exactly how it is. Zen yummy.

    Michael, how did it go?? Wasn’t it supposed to happen around now?

  419. SD TWICE says:

    Everything Artic wants to do can be done with her account, except possibly pulling money back if the arrangement ends; but then maybe he could be on signature to the SBs account or have his own debit card for it.

  420. ARCTIC SD says:

    SD Twice – I guess it does not bode well for married SD then. I am single.

  421. SD TWICE says:

    Arctic, Where will the 1099 and other important account communications be going?

    When you are getting divorced and you have to provide your bank records for the last ten years in discovery, what are you going to do about that account?

    When you are on the stand and your wife’s attorney asks why tens of thousands of dollars worth of women’s items were purchased sliding that debit card, what will you say?

  422. ARCTIC SD says:

    Monthly allowance payment – I would like to share my system where I opened a bank account in my name only (vanilla type with no overdraft, etc) once the arrangement has started and give the bank card to my SB. Each month, I put in the agreed allowance or a little more if she needed extra for school and she can access the money when ever she want with the bank card. For those who are married, you can always ask the bank not to send any monthly statement.

    So far it has worked well for me. Can anyone think of any downfall to that?

    Should we terminate the arrangement, I just close the account.

  423. SanDiego sb says:

    My sugar wish list :

    to find a REAL sd, who doesn’t treat sb’s as a pay as you go phone

  424. Bela says:

    Apparently, there are different types of prepaid cards. Some offer no monthly fee (with conditions of course) and you can use them most wherever you wish. I like the idea, since this way, if my SD chooses he could see how I am spending money. I like the thought of someone showing me how to get to the next step of financial responsibility regarding retirement, savings, etc.

  425. St.LouisPrettyPretty says:

    Hey All,

    I’ve been lurking the blog from some time now and I really enjoy reading everyone’s comments! I just wanted to “Heeeeeeey!” :-)

    I’m still a bit iffy about putting a profile on the site. I think I may just stick to reading the blog. Happy Monday!!

    – SPP

  426. Midwest SB says:

    SD TWICE – Funny, my SDs have said just the opposite. Although, they appreciate my thoughts about saving a few dollars here and there, they would rather me have what I need, want, is convenient, etc. Also, if 85% of the SBs here were here for reasons besides getting their bills paid, you would have a much smaller pool to fish. “Budget SBs” as you seem to have categorized are all well and good and satisfy a market share filled with men of your generosity, but what you seem to miss is that the type of SDs I have met have been generous to not treat anyone as if they were a budget SB. Huge difference.

  427. SD TWICE says:

    Going back to that comment about SBs equating their worth with their expenses or their spending habits…

    It should be suggested not to substitute being in the sugar world for getting your financial house in order. Just as I am limited in my choices by my allowance budget, SBs are limited in their choices by how high they make their requests. Whether you get the expensive SD and save something for the future, or get some really great guy you wouldn’t have found asking for more, either way you are better off.

    Also, don’t look for ways to waste your SDs money (unless he gets into that.) Find ways for him to give you what you want for less, and give you more of what you want instead. If the same dollar is buying you 35% more great outfits, he’s probably going to be happier too. 😉

  428. carebear says:

    SD TWICE- there isn’t much that you would claim to be efficient in sugar world, is there? Have we introduced you to SpiritualBaby? The 2 of you would get along famously.

  429. SD TWICE says:

    I have looked at those cards and it seems to me the fees are excessive making it an inefficient method to deliver value to an SB; so only for an urgent situation would I use one.

  430. Lyrenn says:

    @Lily, It is what Mr.Bear is getting me for my allowance since we will have to use it to rent a room ect when we want to be…close…due to his wife being very very controlling with the card statements.

  431. Bela says:

    Lily – You must be reading my mind, because that’s what I’ve been thinking about. I’ve been talking with a pot and he asked me the method I preferred. I’ve heard of these as well but have no experience with them.

  432. Lily says:

    About reloadable credit cards….anyone actually used this for allowance?

  433. Lyrenn says:

    Well lets see. For the Holidays this year…I want a kind a sweet SD that will stick around for months and months to come. Baring that, I want a new camera.

  434. NC Gent says:

    Shay — there are all sorts of SDs — travel, gift and/or allowance. There are many different wants/needs that need to be equitably addressed, and they are different for every sugar couple. At the end of the negotiations, both parties have to feel that they are getting a good deal for the relationship to be successful…. just like any long term successful business deal. You have to decide what is going to make you feel like you are getting a good deal and that can be comprised of many tangible and intangible benefits. Welcome to the sugar world!

  435. Lily says:

    I’m also a sponge here, NYC SB– soaking up the gospel.

    FL-SD – you know I’m absolutely with you on your old school logic.
    Always go for the person who cares, who has at least some practical ability to support his genuine sentiment to see you soar with actions and not only cheerleading.

    A benefactor who truly adores you & believes in you (& knows he will treasure the memories he creates with you for a lifetime) will always come through, in the end, WAY more (in all kinds of unexpected ways) than the guy who has way more money but cares less.

    Genuine friendship is the way to go. What a guy can afford has often a somewhat *negative* correlation to how he’ll likely assist you.

  436. Midwest SB says:

    FL-SD – Excellent point of view!

    Shay – It’s true that arrangements do go far beyond the financial benefits. In addition to an allowance, I have been fortunate to receive the following benefits from gentlemen I have met here: Networking for a new job; professionally written resume’; advice on how to handle certain scenarios in business and life: travel; gifts; amazing experiences; opportunities to see friends/family; offers to help with relocating; etc, etc. These are priceless, intangible benefits that come from the hearts of gentleman SDs along the way with whom I have remained friends.

    P4P means Pay for Play and is applied to scenarios where the SD agrees to provide an “allowance” to an SB for each time they meet, not on a regular basis. Times I’ve seen this work is when one or the other is not available to meet on a regular basis and they BOTH agree this is a fair solution. Most times, it leaves an SB at a disadvantage for many reasons:
    1- She cannot budget to reach said goals in a timely manner
    2- He can poof after only one night and she’s left to feel like an escort
    3- There’s no commitment on either part to put effort into the arrangement…anything that will last more than a few months requires some effort.
    4- I think it’s a little demeaning for a man to take the attitude that a woman needs an incentive to meet/sleep with him.
    5- The SB takes all the risk. To Lily’s credit, taking a deposit or collateral is just not going to go over well, but it sure made me giggle!

    “Flat Rate” made me laugh, but it’s true. I came to my comfort zone by determining what it would take to a) pay down my student loans b) set up an emergency fund and c) jump start my retirement with a little help from a fellow sugarbaby :-). My priorities have changed now that I am laid off, but hopefully, it helps you in your discovery. We cannot truly put a dollar amount to our value, nor should we. We CAN determine what will help us increase our value to us, our families and to those with whom we will set the world on fire!

  437. NYC SB says:

    Sd ce – please do go on… Spill what you know

  438. Shay says:

    @ Bela – ty for your input :)

    @ FL-SD – ok, you’re right.. altho it seems somewhat tougher in situations where there’s no clear cap on what would be useful (such as, buying a house where you can always use more $ to put toward the house)

    @ sd ce – :( sorry to hear that

  439. FL-SD says:

    @Shay: If I may chime in….
    I suggest sort of “resetting” your thought process a bit…While there is no one format for an arrangement that works, and many different approaches are successful, generally the successful arrangements are based on two people looking to help meet each others goals.

    Think longer term things… is it finishing school(or going for an advanced degree or certification?) or clearing up some old debt, or buying a house…
    An Sd is should be receptive to helping you achieve those longer term goals and in terms that may not be *only* monetary… Maybe he has connections that can help you find that great job, or travel with you to places you’ve always wanted to see or re-unite you with family…

    This prevents the discussion from turning to a real short term “this-for-that” sorts of things. Many arrangements become long-term friendships and are supportive even after the parties have moved on… Those are the sorts of arrangements we all hope to find…
    In that context the immediate value discussion and comparisons between allowance ranges are less important than finding a person that is supportive, respectful and genuinely wants to assist you to achieve your goals.

  440. SD TWICE says:

    Oh Shay! Make some other guesses at P4P please. LoL!

    Similar to the statement late in the NY Times article, I find little correlation between price and quality. So why not look for better quality at lower price?

    I think most SBs equate their value to their expenses or their desires. If they have a 3800 mortgage pmt… they are automatically worth… If they like to spend 5000 on clothes, 2500 on shoes, + accessories + … then they are worth …

    Of course none of that is the case, and so many SBs end up mismatching themselves financially when trying to make an arrangement.

  441. Bela says:

    Shay – Finding out what your “flat rate” would be is not that big of a challenge. You ask yourself, “What are my financial goals that I would like to reach from a sugar relationship?” You likely already know how much you spend on essential bills per month. How much would you say you spend on maintaining yourself (gym, makeup, beauty rituals, etc.) Defining those main categories will give you an idea of what you may be working with for a relationship. Of course, there is no formula, but it’s a start.

  442. Shay says:

    @ midwest SB – hm flat rate huh. That seems “fair” yet idk how I would decide on what my rate would be. I already said the hrly rate crunches out of my favour in terms of what I want to earn per month vs what I could get for other efforts (pro mentality). The only way it’s worth it to me is if I’m having fun and if I’m having fun it follows that I’d be having more fun in certain situations and therefore could offer a lower price if necessary …

    I also have no idea how I would arrive at some figure on what I’m worth, it’s so subjective. To some SDs my incessant questions and meaning-of-life shit is pretty dull and to some I’m sure it would be funny/cute.

    @ SD that was traveling in central europe – that is very interesting that you feel there are many superior SBs outside of your budget. So then do you feel that SBs are often priced according to quality (that one outside your budget is far more likely to be a superior SB than not) or that they tend to decide their prices according to their personal situations and what they require and not necessarily according to “value offered” ?

    @ everyone – what is P4P? I get what it is just not sure what it stands for. pay for play? pay for penetration? also why don’t we have a FORUM?

  443. FL-SD says:

    Morning all !
    A great weekend with wonderful opportunities to be with family and enjoy the company of dear friends. I hope all of you have been so lucky.
    What’s on my sugar wish list ? To make someone special very happy and to create beautiful memories for both of us.
    (I know, I know) :)

  444. SD Guru says:

    Without naming names, I’d like to remind everyone to refrain from name calling and personal attacks. We are all mature adults here so we should be able to discuss different point of views in a constructive manner without resorting to such tactics. If you have a personal vendetta to settle or want to air dirty laundries from the past, please find a way to do so privately. Thank you for keeping the blog drama free!! :)

    There is a lot of good stuff in the blog to comment on and I’ll do so separately.

  445. Bela says:

    TLG, you’re winning my heart!

  446. The Lone Gunman says:

    I’m screaming at a white–Sheepdog!

    ..as he sits upon my chair…….

    It’s a thing I’m dreading, the way he’s shedding–
    and coats everything with hair!

    I’m screaming at a white–Sheepdog!

    If he should visit you some night…

    may his bark be worse than his blight…

    ..and may all your furniture be white!!!

    *apologies to Irving Berlin and many thanks to MAD magazine from years ago.


  447. Midwest SB says:

    NYC SB – Done! One interbank platform coming your way!

    Love the crooners!

  448. NYC SB says:

    Midwest – I want an interbank platform :)

    Also I prefer “baby its cold outside”

  449. Michael Alleycat says:

    Carebear – I am SO with you re Apple. Has totally made my year. Look at rvbd, hgsi, nflx.

  450. Michael Alleycat says:


  451. Midwest SB says:

    We made up a song last Christmas to the tune of “All I want for Christmas”

    All I want for Christmas is a new SD
    A Sweet SD
    A Fun SD


    Personally, I prefer the song “Someone to Watch Over Me”

    So far, I have received an amazing Christmas gift in the most unusual package…time with my family. It’s a blessing. Now I’d like to ask the universe for the most amazing job that allows me to continue with my career…I can start after the New Year holidays!

  452. Midwest SB says:

    From previous blog:
    Shay – I detest the $$ allowance for x number of meets theory. Detest it! I have goals and bills and it will take X amount of money to cover this. In return, I intend to give you my undivided attention when we are together; I will make special arrangements for our meeting dates; I will give you fireworks every time…physically, mentally or both and I will keep the arrangement drama free. Bottom line. I have not been overwhelmed with too many meets per month. In fact, what I have learned is that these men are busy and don’t have the ability to meet frequently. My allowance request does not vary according to the person or the request, nor do my terms.

    SDCE – Are things to remain the same or evolve over time? Is everyone expected to approach sugar the same way regardless of their personal situation? If you want to reflect to true arrangements, perhaps you can consider the days when married men had “kept” women as a socially open and accepted practice. What about other countries (Jamaica) where a man’s wealth is determined by the number of ladies he can keep- all expenses paid? Just because I don’t agree with P4P simply because it gives a lady a serious disadvantage does not mean it’s not for everyone. Just because you insist on test drives and P4P does not mean you should or shouldn’t be regarded as an SD…so don’t fuss if a girl doesn’t accept your P4P offer as if she can’t get anything better. If I get turned away because I won’t back down from my preferences, I consider it a favor. So far, this theory has worked very successfully for me. I believe there is room here for opinions, points of view, several “right” ways to be in an arrangement. Wouldn’t you agree?

    OC – Have you been experimenting with Mr. Smiley? Just kidding…hilarious “Love” observation!

  453. Bela says:

    Monday Morning…le sigh

    Things I really want? A sweet, authentic gentleman of an SD with fabulous sexual chemistry. Yes, I’ll admit it. I’m one of those who is more interested in great companionship and intimacy than getting some SD to buy me a car. I’m not an idiot, financial support is desired, but what’s the point of going through all of this if you can’t enjoy the additional benefits of having a great lover?

  454. carebear says:

    i has a hotdog ana ipad.

    who needs sugar when you have stock in apple =X

  455. first is first says: